What is it with the PS3 and it's screen resolutions? I've just bought R&C at lunch time as well as CoD4 for the 360. CoD4 (along with 80% of my 360 titles) says 720p, 1080i & 1080p on the back. R&C says 720p

I think i only have one title for the PS3 that boasts 1080p, and yet when the PS3 came it out, everyone was slamming the 360 for not having 1080p. Since a firmware update has been available for the 360 to allow 1080p, where are all these 1080p PS3 titles?

For every PS3 game i put in, i press the info button on my TV remote and it says 720p, they don't even upscale. What's up with that?

most games do seem to be 720p they still look great so i am happy.
my tv is 720p 1080i not 1080p and tekken dr runs at 1080i on it im not sure if all psn games run at 1080i though.

I noticed that too with my games. I have had mine for a while and i though it was because most of the games were launch titles and they hadn't been able to push the system due to time constraints but even now when i look at new games they all seem to read 720p. This is kind of annoying as i went out and bought my new TV because it was 1080p and for the same price i could have gotten one that was much larger but only 720p.:(

Yeah it is slightly annoying. As for PSN downloaded titles, i haven't checked all of them as we've only got like 3 available here in the UK (sarcasm), but the ones i did check were only 720p.

I recall MS saying that 720p was the "sweet spot" for HD. They mentioned 3 things, resolution, fidelity and special effects. They said you could only have two of those three, so if you wanted higher resolution you either had to cut down on fidelity or special effects. That was their reasoning for going 720p. Sony bad mouthed them saying that 720 couldn't really be classed as HD, and yet where are all the 1080 PS3 titles?

just a bit more of the old Sony "feed em crap" policy...:mad:

If it didnt say so on the box, you probably wouldnt know, so whats the point in complaining about whats really a non issue? Like the folk that complained that Halo was 640 or PGR was whatever it was, the games looked ace and the only reason you know is becuase you check your tellys rez, read the box or read it on some forum.

On that note, I'm nearly finished R&C and its been an utterly brilliant brilliant game. It could be in 480 for all I care, the goodness of the game far outweighs whatever resolution its in.

Totally agree with the guy above me. Does it really matter to you guys that much? This is not a rhetorical question.

just a bit more of the old Sony "feed em crap" policy...:mad:

720p is not crap. If you get a gorgeous game that runs at 720p, then the developers did something right. From all of the videos I have seen, RaC:F:TOD looks beautiful, not crappy.

I quickly skimmed the replies, so my apologies if someone else already mentioned this, but the 360 has a scaling chip that ups games to whatever resolution you set your TV to. That output resolution has NO bearing on the native resolution the game is output at. So while you may think you're getting some awesome output playing Joust at 1080 resolutions, what you're getting is a signal that in all likelihood is at or below 720p upscaled anyway.

So if you think you're getting "more" graphical resolution from a 720p image upscaled to 1080i/p resolutions, then all the power to ya... if you're really interested in this though, there's a guy that does his magic to uncover "actual" native resolutions of games... and I think you'll be QUITE surprised when you go on the hunt for native 1080p games... because they're VERY few and far between on the 360. They may not be the norm on the PS3 yet either, but there are many more native 1080p games on the PS3 than any other console... (yeah, I chose that wording to make you think for a sec).

Read this monster thread (http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=43330) for examples. The bottom line is you can't always believe the signal your TV is getting as a gauge for what resolution is being rendered by the game.

720p is not crap. If you get a gorgeous game that runs at 720p, then the developers did something right. From all of the videos I have seen, RaC:F:TOD looks beautiful, not crappy.

I wasn't saying that 720p is crap i am saying that sony kind of promised beautiful 1080p graphics and games when they are actually extremely hard to come by. And i would like to point out that graphical flair is not all important to me as super mario 64 is still my favorite game ever and i still play it quite a lot on my laptop.

whats wrong with 720p? I think is great!!

let the 1080p games come a little later on. In later years yeah, 1080P 60Fps. You cannot expect the best from the Ps3 in its first year. Watch that maybe in one year they will all be 1080p, 720p is still GREAT!

I play my PS3 games on a 35" flatscreen SD TV... Like **** I care... Games still look gorgeous at 480p...

I play my games on an 80" 16x9 widescreen via a 720p projector, and they look great. It doesn't bother me in the slightest that games only output at 720p, as that's my setup's native resolution.

http://www.wheresdrew.com/images/mysetup.jpg

R&C looks amazing on my setup, as does most everything else. I'll be at 720p until the new Sanyo 1080p unit gets down to around $1500. (Or if mine dies and I decide to go ahead and upgrade - but I can't afford that right now, so it had better not!)

Yes, I know the PS3 isn't in that shot. I took that pic a month or so ago and my digital camera died right before I bought the PS3 (figured the PS3 was a better use of the money :) ). To imagine how it looks now, just pretend the PS2 is standing up on the Xbox where the Gamecube is in that picture. Slide the Wii to the left and there's plenty of room on the main entertainment unit for the PS3.

OK ok hang on you lot. I didn't want this to turn into a debate over 720p looks great, stop moaning about 1080p, 360 can't do native 1080p etc. I was simply saying Sony mouthed off in the beginning saying they were 1080p and not 720p. Now where are all the 1080p games?

And yes Rothbart, i'm fully aware of upscaling and that many 360 titles upscale, but they also have some 1080p native titles which aren't upscaled 720p titles, but again, that wasn't the point i was making.

In it's defense i prefer the PS3's way of handling 720p, in that it forces my TV down to 720p and displays the image as such, whereas the 360 would automatically default to the dashboard resolution of say 1080i and upscale to a possibly inferior image compared to the 720p

Like i said, not here to discuss the merrits of 720p vs 1080i vs 1080p, simply saying, where are all the 1080p PS3 games we were promised?

Read this monster thread (http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=43330) for examples. The bottom line is you can't always believe the signal your TV is getting as a gauge for what resolution is being rendered by the game.

Rothbart, do you know if there is a list which just shows all the games tested with their resolutions? I skimmed through the monster thread and someone does refer to "Quarz's big list" but i couldn't find it for love nor money.

Check page 19 (http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=43330&page=19).

Cheers! :)

Full Auto 2: 1920x1080 AA 4x, bad framerate - PS3
NBA Street: 1920x1080 AA 4x (30-60fps) - 360
LocoRoco Cocoreccho 1920x1080 MSAA 2x -PS3
Tony Hawk Project 8: 1040x584 AA - 360
Tony Hawk Project 8: 1280x720 - PS3
Virtua Tennis 3: 1920x1080 AA 2x - PS3, 360
XMB: 1920x1080p - PS3
Dashboard: 1280x720p - 360
Perfect Dark Zero: 1138x640p - 360
Halo 3: 1152x640p - 360
Call of Duty 3: 1120x630p 360
Ninja Gaiden Sigma: 1280x720p PS3
Project Gotham Racing 3: 1024x600 360
Tomb Raider: 1024x600 360
Ridge Racer 7:
NBA 07: 1920x1080 - PS3
NBA 08: 1920x1080 - PS3
Tony Hawk Proving Ground: 600p - PS3
Tony Hawk Proving Ground: 720p - 360
GRAW2: 720p - PS3
GRAW2: 720p AA 2x - 360
Super Rub a Dub: 1600x1080 - PS3
GTHD: 1440x1080 - PS3
Super Stardust HD: 1280x1080 - PS3
Skate: 1536x864 - PS3
Skate: 1280x720 AA - 360
Bioshock: 1280x720 - 360
Harry Potter: 1280x720 MSAA 2x PS3 ?
Pixel Junk Racers: 1920x1080 PS3
Heavenly Sword: 1280x720 AA 4x PS3
Blast Factor Demo: 1920x1080 PS3
The Darkness Demo: 1024x576 PS3

This isn't the "entire" or most recent list as this one's heavy in PSN titles... I've seen the guy's work on more retail titles in the past. Bottom line is there are many more "native" 1080p titles on the PS3 than the 360. Many more. And while your TV might say 1080i/p on your 360, it's largely the equivalent of say an upscaling DVD player that claims 1080p output. Yeah, the signal will be 1080p, but the source material isn't.

I'm sure both platforms will an ever-increasing number of 1080p titles as they age and the tools/developers get better but the PS3 did launch proving it was capable of 1080p gaming (back when Microsoft was claiming 1080p for gaming was useless).

OK ok hang on you lot. I didn't want this to turn into a debate over 720p looks great, stop moaning about 1080p, 360 can't do native 1080p etc. I was simply saying Sony mouthed off in the beginning saying they were 1080p and not 720p. Now where are all the 1080p games?

And yes Rothbart, i'm fully aware of upscaling and that many 360 titles upscale, but they also have some 1080p native titles which aren't upscaled 720p titles, but again, that wasn't the point i was making.

In it's defense i prefer the PS3's way of handling 720p, in that it forces my TV down to 720p and displays the image as such, whereas the 360 would automatically default to the dashboard resolution of say 1080i and upscale to a possibly inferior image compared to the 720p

Like i said, not here to discuss the merrits of 720p vs 1080i vs 1080p, simply saying, where are all the 1080p PS3 games we were promised?

THANK YOU!

this is exactly what i was trying to say but my writing skillz just aint that good.

theirs a little bit more going against rachet and clank then just missing 1080...Super Mario Galaxy perhaps??!?

OK ok hang on you lot. I didn't want this to turn into a debate over 720p looks great, stop moaning about 1080p, 360 can't do native 1080p etc. I was simply saying Sony mouthed off in the beginning saying they were 1080p and not 720p. Now where are all the 1080p games?

I'm pretty sure the list of 360 games in 1080p is a single digit list...

Yeah, with the talk you heard, you'd expect EVERY Sony game to be 1080p, but how long are we going to hold this stuff against them? I mean really. We talk of arrogance, then praise the fact that Kutaragi was forced out... yet, we still complain about the arrogance even after he's gone.

Are we going to complain about only one HDMI port next?

At the end of the day, the PS3 is doing a better job of getting games to run at 1080p. And keep in mind "better" is a relative term, not absolute. So just because I'm saying they're doing a better job, don't assume it means I'm saying they're doing a good job.

I think at the end of this gen, we'll see the majority of the big name titles on the 360 and PS3 be cranking out 1080p @ 60fps. On the PS3 I'm more certain of that because I feel there's a lot more headroom there.

That said, it's painfully clear now that great gameplay can come from 720p @ 30fps as well.

That said, it's painfully clear now that great gameplay can come from 720p @ 30fps as well.

Indeed it can, and lower besides, look at Mario Galaxy. I guess im just a bit miffed that 2 years on in 360 life and 1 year on in PS3 life, we don't really have a lot to show off our lovely 1080p systems. And that thread which lists rendered resolutions against displayed resolutions boxed my braind completely. Who'd have thought resolutions could be so non-standard? And i didn't think for one minute that a game would change it's graphic settings depending on what resolution you set to, ie. AA on 720p but no AA on 1080 etc. I just took it for granted that all resolutions would output the same, but now i read it, it makes sense.

I guess im just a bit miffed that 2 years on in 360 life and 1 year on in PS3 life, we don't really have a lot to show off our lovely 1080p systems.

Source (joystiq.com) (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/11/22/call-of-duty-4-not-hd-only-600p-claim-pixel-counters/)

Call of Duty 4 not HD: only 600p, claim pixel counters [update]
by Ross Miller (http://www.joystiq.com/bloggers/ross-miller/) Nov 22nd 2007 9:01AM

The pixel counters strike again! Having already conquered Halo 3 by proving the flagship shooter was 80 pixels below HD (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/09/28/halo-3-not-hd-runs-at-640p-pixel-counters-claim/) (defined here as at least 1280x720), the Beyond 3D forum members are now claiming Call of Duty 4 is only 600p (http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1089950#post1089950) (1024x600 resolution = 614,400 pixels) for both the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 versions - that's 120 pixels 307,200 pixels that have gone AWOL.

The Beyond 3D posters have proven their dedication to pixel counting before with Halo 3, but since we haven't counted ourselves or seen the visual proof prevalent during Halo-gate, we're welcome to be proven wrong.

Update: The tryptophan is starting to affect our ability to calculate. The difference between 600p and 720p (1280x720 = 921,600) is 307,200 pixels - which happens to be the exact number of pixels contained within 640x480 resolution.

[Via X3F (http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/11/21/cod4-missing-120-ps-not-running-in-hd/)]

theirs a little bit more going against rachet and clank then just missing 1080...Super Mario Galaxy perhaps??!?

They are completely different games. They dont play alike at all other than the fact they are 3D and Mario thieved the spherical worlds and gravity tracks.

http://www.wheresdrew.com/images/mysetup.jpg


You are a total show off and I hate you.

Man how I would kill for that setup (currently saving for 720p projector+screen+5.1 set)

I'm pretty sure the list of 360 games in 1080p is a single digit list...


just saying that all of the 360 games i own (rock band, Guitar hero 3, halo 3, Orange box, Call of duty 4) support 1080p and most of the newer games support them from the back of the box. i dont have 1080p HDTV i do have a 720p but its plasma but its old and starting to make screen marks so im getting LCD 1080p because i was playing on a friends tv 1080p Call of duty was awesome.

just saying that all of the 360 games i own (rock band, Guitar hero 3, halo 3, Orange box, Call of duty 4) support 1080p

I think you're mistaking "scaled to 1080p" with "native resolution at 1080p". I realize that to some people it doesn't matter, scaled to 1080p is fine but that's not what I was getting at. They make regular DVD players that upscale to 1080p... the native image is still 720x480 (NTSC) even if the player outputs a signal that's 1920x1080, the source data is "scaled" from 720x480->1920x1080. That's exactly what's happening with all those games you've listed.

The problem is the fact that the PS3 cant even upscale PS3 games to 1080p. Making a game run at 1920x1080 natively and having a solid framerate isn't easy so I don't expect many 1080p native titles but thats why there's upscaling.

I love the fact that all my 360 games are displayed in 1080p. It sucks having a 1920x1200 display and having all my PS3 games get downscaled all the way down to 1280x720 :( But I guess that explains why I have 12x as many blu ray movies as I do PS3 games.

I can see it as a convenience or something you'd like based on the fact that your TV isn't changing modes, but I really don't see a benefit to all games being upscaled (sometimes quite drastically) to 1080p if their native resolution is closer to (or lower than) 720p. Look at Halo 3 or COD4's resolutions... they're sub-720p. Are you trying to imply that the upscaling chip of the 360 makes them look "better" upscaled to 1080p? You'd have a lot of people will to debate that one I'm guessing.

I think the people with oddball TVs that don't support all the standard HD resolutions have some room to complain, but for most other people... it's a none issue... I can scale a 16 pixel by 9 pixel image all the way up to 1920x1080 but that doesn't improve how it looks...

If you want to talk about something that does matter more, that'd be games natively at 1080p. And the majority of them are on the PS3. That was the whole point of my earlier post... scaled to 1080p does not equal running at 1080p.

You are a total show off and I hate you.

Man how I would kill for that setup (currently saving for 720p projector+screen+5.1 set)

Yes, I am. And don't worry, I don't mind the hate, as I know it's born out of love. :)

Which projector do you have your eye on? Mine is a Sanyo Z3 (http://www.projectorcentral.com/sanyo_plv-z3.htm), which I picked up back in February 2005. If you're in the US, keep a watch out for deals on the Z5 (http://www.projectorcentral.com/sanyo_plv-z5.htm), which is Sanyo's current top-end 720p unit. BUT if you can wait and save a little more, shoot for getting a Z2000 (http://www.projectorcentral.com/sanyo_z2000_home_theater_projector.htm), their new 1080p unit.

I've been thinking of upgrading mine to a Z5, but with the Z2000 out, I'll probably hold off until I can save up more for that one. Sadly, the price on that unit in Japan is about $1,000 more than it is in the US, so I'll be saving for quite some time.

When you're shopping, keep an eye out for package deals. When I bought my projector, the screen was included as a free bonus. Mounting the screen can be a bit of a hassle, but it can also be done on the cheap (which is good, considering how much a projector can set you back). The hardware to mount mine ran me about $20. :)

I think the people with oddball TVs that don't support all the standard HD resolutions have some room to complain, but for most other people... it's a none issue... I can scale a 16 pixel by 9 pixel image all the way up to 1920x1080 but that doesn't improve how it looks...360 games don't look better upscaled to 1080p for you? I know when I went from 720p(before I got my VGA cable) to 1080p upscaled games looked noticeably better.

hmm i don't know if this bothers anyone else but when my TV switches form the 1080i to 720p it gives this annoying flashing screen. also in that thread linked it had a lot of interesting stuff about how with the scaler chip you could make resolutions that were lower than 1080i/p that would be scaled correctly to 1080i/p and so they would look better with a scaler chip than without

Try this on for size, every dam 720p game released that doesn't support 1080i, will get downscaled to 480p on my older HDTV. I...am...pissed. Upscale a 720p signal, I wouldn't care. At least it would look better than friggin 480p. Now when I finally play games on my PS3 they'll look worse than every other Xbox360 game I've got that can at least upscale to 1080i since that's the only HD signal my TV will support.

Try this on for size, every dam 720p game released that doesn't support 1080i, will get downscaled to 480p on my older HDTV. I...am...pissed. Upscale a 720p signal, I wouldn't care. At least it would look better than friggin 480p. Now when I finally play games on my PS3 they'll look worse than every other Xbox360 game I've got that can at least upscale to 1080i since that's the only HD signal my TV will support.

That sounds pretty crappy but this may help,

On your PS3 go into video settings and tell your ps3 that your tv only supports 1080p and i may upscale the video for you.

Thanks for the suggestion smon. But this is a documented issue. The only resolution is to have games themselves support 1080 output. Apparently Uncharted is the first game to have that built in. My TV ONLY supports 1080i. I've thought about getting a standalone upscaler but this is pretty dam poor. I'm even seeing some people with older Sony HDTVs that are stuck with a downscaled 480p image. Bad move Sony.

Say what you want about the red ring o death but at least MS put an upscaler in the 360 so no matter what native resolution the games run at (most are 720p anyways) it still scales them up to 1080i.

Ok it looks like I got my panties in a twist a bit early. Seems like now more games are actually supporting 1080i. This looks to be an issue with only the 1st party titles like Heavenly Sword. But I am now reading that Ratchet and Clank and Uncharted support 1080i. We shall see.

I have a problem (well, sort of) with my ps3 and COD4. i have a 1080p screen and cod4 supports this resolution but when i play it seems to default back to 720p.

I can "force" it to run in 1080p only by going into the ps3's options and telling it that my tv only supports 1080p...

If any body knows why this might be happening please let us know.

I will wager a guess for you on whats going on. PS3 games are natively programmed in 720p resolution meaning there is no compression (data loss) and no upscaling done (processing power loss). Now the third party games that support 1080i are upscaled from the native
720p resolution to 1080i and 1080p. So, why does the ps3 want to default back to 720p thats because 720p is the optimum setting to run the games on because the console does not have to upscale and waste processing resources; this is why it lets you choose the display modes and when multiple modes are selected it does not default to the highest resolution it defaults to the optimum resolution. Now why does this not happen with the 360? 360 games are not natively programmed in HD format instead they are upscaled using a chip that is separate from the CPU and GPU (called the anos I think thats the name) therefore since you are upscaling to higher resolutions the 360 just upscales to the highest resolution supported by your tv.

All I can say - PC FTW. You get what you can.

Thnaks for that nicknitro. i thought it could have been something with my ps3.

And are you serious when you said the 360 had an anos! wtf that is a good name for a computer chip, they should have named there system after it "the anos360".

P.S. Upscaling thread part 2 - http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46242
List of resolutions - http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241

Thnaks for that nicknitro. i thought it could have been something with my ps3.

And are you serious when you said the 360 had an anos! wtf that is a good name for a computer chip, they should have named there system after it "the anos360".

Well, its not actually your PS3 the game instructs the PS3 to default to
720p, and I was wrong the name of the 360 scaler chip is "ana"

and I was wrong the name of the 360 scaler chip is "ana"

DAGNABIT!!!:(

In an ideal world, both PS3 and 360 games would have an option asking you to pick a default resolution for that game.

It could show you screenshots or short clips of the game running in each resolution so you can pick which one works best for you, on each individual game on your own TV. A game at 1080p which sacrifices fidelity or effects may be better than a 720p with all the bells and whistles in tact.

When i'm on my PC do i go for 1600x1200 and sacrifice some texture sizes or particle effects? Or do i plumb for 1200x1024 and have everything maxed out?

The games do this already on these consoles without us knowing it. It would be much better if there was an option squirreled away within the game showing us what effect changing the resolution of the console has on the game without having to quit out, change your console resolution then fire up the game again and trying to remember the difference between an image you are seeing now compared to something you saw 10 mins ago.

When i'm on my PC do i go for 1600x1200 and sacrifice some texture sizes or particle effects? Or do i plumb for 1200x1024 and have everything maxed out?

The games do this already on these consoles without us knowing it.

consoles have always done this. this is why so many people prefer PCs, because you can adjust everything manually.

But it's only this generation that we've had 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p to choose from. 9 times out of 10 the consumer doesn't realise that picking any of those different resolutions doesn't just change the resolution, it changes whether certain sfx are enabled, or whether AA is enabled etc. etc. This is not something that consoles have always done. To the best of my knowledge we've only just come across it in this generation.

Wow what kinf of ignorance is this, anyone who has a brain knows that the 360 never displays in 1080p, just because it says it doesn't mean that it does. Even halo 3 only display in 640p, and it says on the box 1080p, the system wasn't designed that way, they decided to add an HDMI port because the PS3 made it standard. But i guess some gamers are just to stupid to believe everything these companies say.

Not sure who your comment is directed at Blackflash but the 360 CAN and HAS displayed a 1080p game. I suggest you correct your ignorance good friend. I don't have time to plough through the huge thread now (well over a hundred pages worth) but Rothbart linked to another forum which showed which games were rendered at what resolutions yada yada yada. It's all to do with rendering vs displaying, but hey, who am i to say "displaying at 1080p" as clearly i don't have a brain and this is all beyond me :)

But it's only this generation that we've had 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p to choose from. 9 times out of 10 the consumer doesn't realise that picking any of those different resolutions doesn't just change the resolution, it changes whether certain sfx are enabled, or whether AA is enabled etc. etc. This is not something that consoles have always done. To the best of my knowledge we've only just come across it in this generation.

this is true... television technology has changed to where consumers have a "choice" of how they view television, movies, and games. consoles, however have always had one resolution they output in. i'm not backing sony up on this, as if it is as big a problem as it sounds, it's definitely something that should be looked at, i'm simply saying it's not something any console developer has had to deal with in the past, and that's generally how they make improvements.

And not trying to throw stones but clearly this is something that MS got right at the start. An upscaled 720p image to 1080i is much better than a downscaled to 480p image in my opinion. Hopefully Sony can do something to fix this.

I think both methods offer something. Sony's machine changes the resolution automatically to the optimal setting so you know you're viewing it the way the developer meant it to be viewed, which is a good thing. Sadly in the case of TVs which don't support the 720p or whatever then i can see why people would get upset by it.

Whilst it's nice to be able to upscale on the 360, i'd far rather my console pick the resolution intelligently than me picking the wrong resolution and be viewing an inferior image without knowing any different. Or at least have all the options in a sub-menu and show me the difference between the various resolutions in realtime.

I thought the 1.80 PS3 firmware patch did that? You just tell the PS3 the resolutions your TV supports and it will pick the optimal one based on the game or movie you put into it. Then even if your TV supports 1080p it will output a game at 720p if that is what it was programmed for. You can apparently try to force it to do 1080p by telling the ps3 that 1080p is all your TV supports. I've heard mixed results about that.

I don't know if it's part of a firmware patch but yes, the PS3 picks the optimal setting, which is great imho. If only the 360 would do something similar. Why have my 360 set to 1080i or 1080p on something like Halo 3 which renders well below that quality? Let the game decide what resolution should be the optimal and let that be that, providing my TV supports it.