Let's discuss where we will all end this. It seems to me that there's a bit of crysis in PC gaming industry. There's less and less PC exclusives (even MMO's!). More multiplatform stuff, wich runs not so good for the looks of it on top end systems. How we will end? Will the PC gaming survive the console wars? For this year it's covered. But Half-life is no more PC exclusive. I belive Crysis will go multiplatform like FarCry... How we will survive & what it will be.

Discuss.

Man, I shudder when I think about the future of PC gaming.

I'm pretty sure that PC games will stick around, of course, but they'll simply become sparse. Everyone once in a while a quality game will have to show up, but other than that, PC-gamers will just have to come to terms with a sorrowful future.

Nintendo, Sony, Apple & Linux will force Microsoft into bankrupcy.

Sony will be forbidden access to human flesh, which means the downfall of their consoles.

Nintendo will stay alive, but as Nintendo is hardly competition for PC gaming, no worries there.
Just like old times! :mrgreen:

===

Seriously though, I don't see any of them disappearing.
They'll all just have to share the cake.

Unless Sega comes up with a miracle product that blows the competition away.
They'll have to do better than with the Dreamcast though :P


I'm never giving up on PC gaming and I'm sure many others won't either.
I don't really think it's in danger.

I'm never giving up on PC gaming and I'm sure many others won't either.
I don't really think it's in danger.Honestly, the lack of good PC-exclusives (and the insufficient power of my computer) made me buy a 360. There should be a revolution in the PC gaming market, otherwise developing PC games will become unprofitable and will eventually lead to the fall of PC gaming.
IMO, a division like this:
PC -> work, study
Console -> gaming
would be great.

regua Agreed. But I think If there's no new, innovative controller that would give us the accuracy of the mouse and control of a keyboard conloses is not good enough for me. Cause 90% console shooters are lack of dynamics, cause you need to aim & thats hard to aim fast & accurate with sticks.
Secondly - you need to use 1 console for a 5 years. I'm High tech fan - I cant just play games with similar graphics\physics. Good PC can now beat the consoles easyly. Thare's only lack of good PC developers. WIC,Crysis is living proof.
P.S. Consoles are lack of mods. You cannot just edit the game's files on it. If the framerate is low for you - you cannot just overclock your console (exept PSP's CFW's). There's a bunch of problems for someone and teh best for another. Loading times... Why you just cannot dump the game to HDD? Or buy it throuh download service?

P.S. I really think sony chouse the Blu-ray for their console cause for at least 2-3 years the scene will be dead on the console. You simply cannot burn the blu-ray!

regua Agreed. But I think If there's no new, innovative controller that would give us the accuracy of the mouse and control of a keyboard conloses is not good enough for me. Cause 90% console shooters are lack of dynamics, cause you need to aim & thats hard to aim fast & accurate with sticks.
Yeah, that's true - and that's one of the biggest disadvantages of console gaming as a whole. Although I'd like to be able to aim a little bit faster, I think that a mouse for consoles is a stupid idea. It makes the games more difficult and, as a result, more interesting. Some PC shooters are just too easy, because you can aim so easily... doing the same with a console controller is more work, but also more fun.
Secondly - you need to use 1 console for a 5 years. I'm High tech fan - I cant just play games with similar graphics\physics. Good PC can now beat the consoles easyly.
Yes, but you pay $500 once every 5 years and you have a lot of money to spend on games :wink: , and when you really want your PC to be able to display all the new games with such amazing graphics as e.g. the forthcoming Unreal 3, you'd have to pay the same amount of money every 6 months, because new graphic cards / processors are released so frequently.
Also, seeing that there will be no PS3 successor in 10 years' time (http://www.tech.co.uk/home-entertainment/gaming/games-consoles/news/playstation-3-set-to-reign-for-10-years?articleid=1221635379), I think that the next-gen consoles (except the Wii a.k.a. Wee) will be upgradeable like PCs. I just can't believe that the same, 3.2 GHz processor will be able to display new games in 2017!
Thare's only lack of good PC developers. WIC,Crysis is living proof.
Agreed. Maybe it's more profitable to release games on consoles... and that's another proof that PC gaming market is going to fall eventually.
P.S. Consoles are lack of mods. You cannot just edit the game's files on it. If the framerate is low for you - you cannot just overclock your console (exept PSP's CFW's). There's a bunch of problems for someone and teh best for another. Loading times... Why you just cannot dump the game to HDD? Or buy it throuh download service?
I think all these problems will be solved in near future. Just look at the next-gen console capabilities and compare them with PS2. Every generation of consoles brings something innovative, let's just wait :)

If anything I think that consoles are the ones in trouble.

This argument comes around with every next-gen console release. Except this time it different. In the past the next-gen consoles had better graphics then the top of the line computers did, this allowed the "ZOMG CONSOLE GAMING FTW" n00bs to rant and rave about the death of PC gaming to take their soap boxes.... for about 6 months.

This time the 360s graphics match that of a mid range computer. Less people are screaming "down with PCs" then they were last time. The statement "there are less exclusive games for the PC" is baseless because the lines between PC and console gaming have become increasingly blurred. Microsoft was brilliant with the unveiling of Windows Live Anywhere. Granted the debut was less then stellar but once the kinks are worked out and they open the tech to all publishers and not just their line of games you're going to see a new generation of games I think.

The price of consoles is getting a bit out of hand. The original Nintendo was $100. SNES $150. PSX. $150?. PS2 and Xbox $200. Xbox360 $400. PS3 $600. The next gen is going to cost $800-1000, for a *console*. My PC cost $1500 to build, but now that it's built I only have to piece out parts as they become obsolete. The Video card I bought brand new for 300 is now 150 because it's 3rd gen. It's still good enough to run even oblivion at full graphics so I don't need to worry about it. When I do need to upgrade I can toss out $100 for a card that's better then what I have because the tech will be so far ahead of the entertainment that uses it. With a console I don't have that option.

Long story short, the price of tech for consoles is going to push most user out of the market in 1 to 2 more gens.

If anything I think that consoles are the ones in trouble.

This argument comes around with every next-gen console release. Except this time it different. In the past the next-gen consoles had better graphics then the top of the line computers did, this allowed the "ZOMG CONSOLE GAMING FTW" n00bs to rant and rave about the death of PC gaming to take their soap boxes.... for about 6 months.

This time the 360s graphics match that of a mid range computer. Less people are screaming "down with PCs" then they were last time. The statement "there are less exclusive games for the PC" is baseless because the lines between PC and console gaming have become increasingly blurred. Microsoft was brilliant with the unveiling of Windows Live Anywhere. Granted the debut was less then stellar but once the kinks are worked out and they open the tech to all publishers and not just their line of games you're going to see a new generation of games I think.

The price of consoles is getting a bit out of hand. The original Nintendo was $100. SNES $150. PSX. $150?. PS2 and Xbox $200. Xbox360 $400. PS3 $600. The next gen is going to cost $800-1000, for a *console*. My PC cost $1500 to build, but now that it's built I only have to piece out parts as they become obsolete. The Video card I bought brand new for 300 is now 150 because it's 3rd gen. It's still good enough to run even oblivion at full graphics so I don't need to worry about it. When I do need to upgrade I can toss out $100 for a card that's better then what I have because the tech will be so far ahead of the entertainment that uses it. With a console I don't have that option.

Long story short, the price of tech for consoles is going to push most user out of the market in 1 to 2 more gens.I would agree with you except for the fact that gaming’s future no longer hinges on how great its graphics are. The Wii’s successes is a huge indicator of this. To many people gaming isn’t something you can do with a computer anymore. Could you imagine sitting three inches from the screen to play guitar hero or any of the many Wii games? It just doesn’t work that way. Sitting in front of a computer screen does not translate into an enjoyable environment for most people. The computer isn’t located in the right area for people to enjoy anything other than single player or online games.

Now this isn’t to say that computer games are going to go the way of the Dodo, it just means that the tech has to change. In the end consoles are becoming more like computers than ever. I have a feeling that having a computer connected to your living room will not be unusual. When this happens then and only then will computer gaming become more mainstream. And when I say computer gaming I’m talking about more than solitaire and bejeweled.

I would agree with you except for the fact that gaming’s future no longer hinges on how great its graphics are. The Wii’s successes is a huge indicator of this. To many people gaming isn’t something you can do with a computer anymore. Could you imagine sitting three inches from the screen to play guitar hero or any of the many Wii games? It just doesn’t work that way. Sitting in front of a computer screen does not translate into an enjoyable environment for most people. The computer isn’t located in the right area for people to enjoy anything other than single player or online games.

Now this isn’t to say that computer games are going to go the way of the Dodo, it just means that the tech has to change. In the end consoles are becoming more like computers than ever. I have a feeling that having a computer connected to your living room will not be unusual. When this happens then and only then will computer gaming become more mainstream. And when I say computer gaming I’m talking about more than solitaire and bejeweled.

Most new TVs have a VGA input. That means that you can play PC games from the comfort of you couch. All you need is a wireless key board and mouse. I'm not really sure that PC gaming can become more mainstream then it is. I want to say that their are more PC gamers then console gamers but that line is skewed because so many people play on both.

A few people here have predicted the next gen consoles will be upgrade able like a computer. I've got a question for you then. Why would I pay $800-$1000 for a system that can only play games and movies that I can upgrade with only propiratory parts when I can spend just as much a a system that can play games and that I can use to write reports and spreadsheets and create presentation and do 100 other things that a console isn't designed to do?

Fact is that consoles are becoming more like PCs, not the other way around. People want IE7 to be included in the next 360 patch for Christ sake.

Most new TVs have a VGA input. That means that you can play PC games from the comfort of you couch. All you need is a wireless key board and mouse. I'm not really sure that PC gaming can become more mainstream then it is. I want to say that their are more PC gamers then console gamers but that line is skewed because so many people play on both.

A few people here have predicted the next gen consoles will be upgrade able like a computer. I've got a question for you then. Why would I pay $800-$1000 for a system that can only play games and movies that I can upgrade with only propiratory parts when I can spend just as much a a system that can play games and that I can use to write reports and spreadsheets and create presentation and do 100 other things that a console isn't designed to do?

Fact is that consoles are becoming more like PCs, not the other way around. People want IE7 to be included in the next 360 patch for Christ sake.

I agree that consoles are becoming more like PCs and that’s kind of my point. The reason why consoles are more main stream is the ease of use factor and that’s what makes it different than a PC. To the normal person PC games are just a pain. There’s so much to take into account to make sure a game will be playable on any one given PC and this is why it’s so hard for PC gaming to become main stream.

PC gaming is great for the hardcore who wish to spend the time and gain the knowledge it takes to make a PC game run on their home built rigs but your average Joe has a boxed PC and doesn’t know how to best set up a game to run properly on their computer nevertheless install a video card. In the end it’s all about consistency across the board that’s going to be needed for the less tech savvy to penetrate into the gaming world of PC’s.

Now Microsoft knows this and that’s why they are trying to build a console like atmosphere with their Games For Windows platform. The only problem with that is that it’s making the core PC gamers mad because that’s not what they want from their games. It’s kind of a catch 22. If PC gaming does what it needs to do to become main stream then it’s going to suck because it’s what makes PC gaming more advanced that appeals to PC gamers.

For some countries like Russia PC gaming is cheaper. We have for example original Half-life 2 game of the year edition (CS:S,HL2,HL2EP1,HL2DM,HL:Source) under 10$... Battlefield 2142 - 10$, TestDrive Unlimited - 10$.. And so on. But console games are 60$ per game! That's awful because of the earnings in Russia. That's why there's so much of Pirateed games here. I can say - I use them - but only for Try & Buy. Because I don't want to spend my money on crap, but I can easyly spend some gigs of traffic to try the game.
P.S. X360 costs 370-400$ around here. PS3 - 800$..

So in Russia is pretty good to upgrade PC once a year for 1000$ (& sell outdated stuff for 300-500$) (Don't forget overclocking) and buy games for 10$. Rather than Buy console for 500$ (+TV for me - 1000$) and then spend 60$ per game.

And again - Consoles lack of hardcore sims - like RFactor,MSFS & co.
PC is more complitable with perpherials - Wheels, Joystics, gamepads, touchpads and lots of other things. PC can Burn discs (for examle for your X360 =))

GuitarHero you sais - we can plug in REAL guitar, Midi keybord & create music over the net.

But back on topic - More games are multiplatform and lacks of polishing on PC versions. PC is covered by "the scene" so there's less profits.

I think computer gaming like we know it now will survive maximum another next gen of consoles. Then it will be transformed into something or dead.

P.S. And thats not true that console gaming is cheeper than PC. It's more profitable - yes. For someone it's more usual, cause he played PS,PS2 etc. But not cheaper. IMHO.

CharlieBlix Totally agreed. It's not for core users. Wich bougth a boxed PC (that usually made of crap) and wondering WTF is going on.

If users became more advanced that will bring back the gold era of PC gaming IMHO.
P.P.S. I'm working TechSupport for ISP - so I share my predictions about people.

70% - "Core users" - For them it's hard to find a "Start Button" :D
20% - "Advanced users" - normal people - can easyly start IE\Opera, post on forums, use blogs, instal games.
10% - "Pro users"...

So there is only 20-30% of people can cope with PC's games....

If anything I think that consoles are the ones in trouble.

This argument comes around with every next-gen console release. Except this time it different. In the past the next-gen consoles had better graphics then the top of the line computers did, this allowed the "ZOMG CONSOLE GAMING FTW" n00bs to rant and rave about the death of PC gaming to take their soap boxes.... for about 6 months.

This time the 360s graphics match that of a mid range computer. Less people are screaming "down with PCs" then they were last time. The statement "there are less exclusive games for the PC" is baseless because the lines between PC and console gaming have become increasingly blurred. Microsoft was brilliant with the unveiling of Windows Live Anywhere. Granted the debut was less then stellar but once the kinks are worked out and they open the tech to all publishers and not just their line of games you're going to see a new generation of games I think.

The price of consoles is getting a bit out of hand. The original Nintendo was $100. SNES $150. PSX. $150?. PS2 and Xbox $200. Xbox360 $400. PS3 $600. The next gen is going to cost $800-1000, for a *console*. My PC cost $1500 to build, but now that it's built I only have to piece out parts as they become obsolete. The Video card I bought brand new for 300 is now 150 because it's 3rd gen. It's still good enough to run even oblivion at full graphics so I don't need to worry about it. When I do need to upgrade I can toss out $100 for a card that's better then what I have because the tech will be so far ahead of the entertainment that uses it. With a console I don't have that option.

Long story short, the price of tech for consoles is going to push most user out of the market in 1 to 2 more gens.

I agree with most of this. Though I think Live is foolish thinking on Microsofts part. I mean why pay for something you get free otherwise on the pc? I also believe that both the PC and console markets will continue to thrive.

I agree that consoles are becoming more like PCs and that’s kind of my point. The reason why consoles are more main stream is the ease of use factor and that’s what makes it different than a PC. To the normal person PC games are just a pain. There’s so much to take into account to make sure a game will be playable on any one given PC and this is why it’s so hard for PC gaming to become main stream.

PC gaming is great for the hardcore who wish to spend the time and gain the knowledge it takes to make a PC game run on their home built rigs but your average Joe has a boxed PC and doesn’t know how to best set up a game to run properly on their computer nevertheless install a video card. In the end it’s all about consistency across the board that’s going to be needed for the less tech savvy to penetrate into the gaming world of PC’s.

Now Microsoft knows this and that’s why they are trying to build a console like atmosphere with their Games For Windows platform. The only problem with that is that it’s making the core PC gamers mad because that’s not what they want from their games. It’s kind of a catch 22. If PC gaming does what it needs to do to become main stream then it’s going to suck because it’s what makes PC gaming more advanced that appeals to PC gamers.

I'm still confused as to the whole "PCs aren't mainstream" PCs are in more then half of homes in America. Can't really say that about the consoles. And I promise you they aren't just being used for business. With Vista you now have a computer rating system that eventually will be adopted be the gaming industry. Vista "scores" each piece of critical hardware in your system and gives it a score 1 to 5. The lowest scoring piece is used as a baseline. When games start using this score there wont be anymore questions about "is my computer good enough". If your PC meets the score then you can run it. Yes Vista blows, but so did XP when it first was released. Give it 1.5 years and it'll be ready.

HC I agree with you that a lot of games that are ported from a console to the PC suck balls. There are quite a few that don't though. And the same can be said about the reverse. PC to Console ports suck as well.

Raynes, I've got to disagree with you bro. Consoles are just getting to damn expensive to compete. Either MS and Sony are going to have to find a way to cut costs or the console as we know it will become extinct as we know them.

[quote=CharlieBlix]
Raynes, I've got to disagree with you bro. Consoles are just getting to damn expensive to compete. Either MS and Sony are going to have to find a way to cut costs or the console as we know it will become extinct as we know them.

They are expensive at launch. They always have been. In 5 or 6 years do you think the PS3 or xbox 360 will be $500? Of course they won't. They will be under the magic $200 number.

raynes But till that time they will suck... 5-6 years is too much waiting =) + Technology is not waiting.. so that's not the point.

I'm still confused as to the whole "PCs aren't mainstream" PCs are in more then half of homes in America. Can't really say that about the consoles. And I promise you they aren't just being used for business. With Vista you now have a computer rating system that eventually will be adopted be the gaming industry. Vista "scores" each piece of critical hardware in your system and gives it a score 1 to 5. The lowest scoring piece is used as a baseline. When games start using this score there wont be anymore questions about "is my computer good enough". If your PC meets the score then you can run it. Yes Vista blows, but so did XP when it first was released. Give it 1.5 years and it'll be ready.

PC gaming isn’t main stream even though PC’s are. What most people do on their home computers is spend their time on myspace and facebook, not gaming. Now the whole computer rating system is cool. I used it when I got LoTR online. It helps but that doesn’t fix one of the main problems with pc gaming- most people’s PC’s suck. I have a boxed HP and I spent over 700 bucks and I barely can run LoTR online, and I just got the computer a week before I got the game. That’s more than any game system in the market. Most games that people are going to want to play will be new games that are popular. Like let’s say Crysis. What do you think the system requirements are going to be for that game? It’s going to be a crazy. And this is where you run into the problem I already talked about… your average Joe upgrading their PC… they won’t… they’ll just go out and buy a new one… for more money than what they would spend for a console.

Now you're comparing PC tech to console tech.

I can piece together a gaming PC for around $500 with parts that are 3-4 years old. It won't be the best but I play most games with it.

A console has less of a shelf life because all parts are propriatary and once a new system is release the old one is no longer a priority for game developers. From your point of view I have to wait till 2010 to play Gears of War!

With a PC it doesn't matter that a new video card is released every 6 months that better the the last gen because the last gen cards can still play the games that the new one can.

Now you're comparing PC tech to console tech.

I can piece together a gaming PC for around $500 with parts that are 3-4 years old. It won't be the best but I play most games with it.

A console has less of a shelf life because all parts are propriatary and once a new system is release the old one is no longer a priority for game developers. From your point of view I have to wait till 2010 to play Gears of War!

With a PC it doesn't matter that a new video card is released every 6 months that better the the last gen because the last gen cards can still play the games that the new one can.again... your average Joe can not do that. He can't build his own rig... I'm sorry but thats the whole reason why PC gaming sucks for main stream... people don't want to dig inside their electronics... they want to buy them, plug them in, and have them work. They do not want to buy it, play it, buy replacement parts, install them themselves, trouble shoot, call text support because they did something wrong... and so on. To you thats not hard but to them... it is, and till they figure out how to fix that PC gaming can't become main stream. It has to be easy. It has to be plug and play. One touch. You've seen the instructions on the back of shampoo bottles... people are freaking stupid! Most of them don't even know you can take the cover off of a PC!

Think of how much Boxed PCs cost, because main stream buys boxed computers. Now think of what kind of boxed pc you would have to buy to be able to play games like Crysis. We are talking high end box PC's that cost over 1000 bucks. I know you can build one for cheaper and still have it work but to be main stream it has to be boxed, thus the problem.

Blix makes a good point. There are way more people, believe it or not, that would drop $600 on a PS3 instead of $600 upgrading their PC. I know, shocker, since not many people are dropping $600 on the PS3 either <_< Where do those figures come from? They don't, I'm making it up, heh heh, but when is the last time you saw a commercial for Nvidia on mainstream TV?

I usually opt for the upgrade, because I started as a PC gamer and I'm sticking with my birth right.

PC games needs to get a piece of the casual gaming industry which is huge right now, but I have no idea how that could happen.

again... your average Joe can not do that. He can't build his own rig... I'm sorry but thats the whole reason why PC gaming sucks for main stream... people don't want to dig inside their electronics... they want to buy them, plug them in, and have them work. They do not want to buy it, play it, buy replacement parts, install them themselves, trouble shoot, call text support because they did something wrong... and so on. To you thats not hard but to them... it is, and till they figure out how to fix that PC gaming can't become main stream. It has to be easy. It has to be plug and play. One touch. You've seen the instructions on the back of shampoo bottles... people are freaking stupid! Most of them don't even know you can take the cover off of a PC!

Think of how much Boxed PCs cost, because main stream buys boxed computers. Now think of what kind of boxed pc you would have to buy to be able to play games like Crysis. We are talking high end box PC's that cost over 1000 bucks. I know you can build one for cheaper and still have it work but to be main stream it has to be boxed, thus the problem.

Case ( [New !!!] Nzxt Hush Gaming Tower Case w/420W Power Supply Black )
Case Lighting ( None )
Power Supply ( Standard Case Power Supply )
Processor ( AMD Athlon™64 X2 4000+ Dual-Core CPU w/ HyperTransport Technology )
Free Software/Game ( Free Software -- [3DMark®06 Basic Edition] )
Free Software/Game ( [Free] iBUYPOWER T-Shirt with AMD 64 X2 Logo on front and back with Archlord Game Graphic --- $19.99 value )
Free Software/Game ( [Free] iBUYPOWER Aegis Case - for your Games, Accessories, Disks, Manuals ... etc. --- $19.99 value )
Free Software/Game ( Free Games - [Age of Empires III] and [Rise Of Nations: Rise Of Legend] must purchase with AMD Athlon 64 X2/Mobile AMD Turion 64/Turion 64 X2 Processor based system )
Free Software/Game ( Free Game - [Anarchy Online] )
Free Software/Game ( Free Game - [Scions of Fate] )
Processor Cooling ( [=== Silent ===] Thermaltake MaxOrb CPU Cooling Fan System Kit Silent & Overclocking Proof = Maximum cooling efficiency for quietness and performance )
Motherboard ( MSI K9N4 SLI-F NVIDIA nForce 500-SLI MCP Chipset w/7.1 Sound, Gb LAN, S-ATA Raid, USB 2.0, Dual PCI-E MB )
Memory ( 1024MB [512MB X2] DDR2-800 PC6400 Memory Module Corsair-Value or Major Brand )
Video Card ( 2X NVIDIA GeForce 8500GT 256MB w/DVI + TV Out Video )
Video Card Brand ( === High Performance === eVGA Brand Video Cards [SLI enabled] Powered by NVIDIA )
Hard Drive ( 250 GB HARD DRIVE [Serial-ATA-II, 3Gb, 7200 RPM, 8M Cache] )
2nd Hard Drive ( None )
External Raid Hard Drives [USB 2.0/eSATA] ( None )
CD/DVD Drive ( [** Special !!! ***] 18X Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive Beige )
CD-RW/DVD-RW Drive ( None )
Sound Card ( 3D Premium Surround Sound Onboard )
Speaker System ( 600W PMPO 3 PCS Super Bass Subwoofer Speaker System )
Network Card ( Onboard LAN Network (Gb or 10/100) )
Floppy Drive ( None )
Monitor ( None )
2nd Monitor ( None )
Keyboard ( Logitech Deluxe Keyboard Black )
Mouse ( Logitech Optical Internet Mouse Black )
Meter Display ( None )
Flash Media Reader/Writer ( 12-In-1 Internal Flash Media Card Reader/Writer Beige )
Operation System ( MS Windows XP Home Edition w/ Service Pack 2 )

That system will run any game out there for the PC right now. Price? $558.00. Not bad seeing as how 2 games come bundled with it. What's not plung and play about that system? You put the disc in, follow the instuctions on the screen on how to install AoE and then you play. And it's the price of a 360 elite. It will also last longer since in 2 years they can take it to Best buy and say "I need a new video card" $200 later they're playing games again. For 1.5x the cost of an Xbox, they've just got 3x the staying power. Don't believe me? Go put your own together on Dell or www.ibuypower.com

PCs are a tad more expensive to start but in the long run they are going to be cheaper. Kind of hard to deny that since you've yet to disagree with me that the next gen consoles are going to cost more then that PC I just built.... sorry, ibuypower built and shipped to me.

EDIT: You'll notice that no Monitor is included. You can get a 19" LCD for 150ish or hook the PC up to your TV through S-video or a VGA connection.

Not so bad for boxed pc for that price. You can find much worse system for more money.
P.S. Would be great to replace 2x8500 in ATI's 1950XT or even better to 8800GTS 320mb.
P.P.S. 2 gigs of ram is needed for happyness =)

2gb= happiness but not needed for XP. If it was a vista box I would have went with 2. Proving a point here though :P

2gb= happiness but not needed for XP. If it was a vista box I would have went with 2. Proving a point here though :P

Nope. 2 Gigs - that's for XP. For new games that's nedeed (2006+ & some older games like EQ2). (For Vista it's 3gig+) Or you'll be experiencing really big swaps.

P.S. Ported games from X360 is pretty good running at 1GB, but only because consoles are lack of memory.

Lleu, are you saying the 360 and the PS3 are only going to last two years out of the box?... because thats what your saying for this PC you got. Two years and they have to spend another 200 bucks.. then two years for another? so in four years they've spent 900 bucks on their system at least?

That doesnt seem to prove that its better for main stream at all man... sorry but thats why consoles came around in the first place... true plug and play goodness?

And I know it's hard not to think power is everything for gaming. I mean thats what we've been thinking for years but the Wii's sales show us that main stream doesnt give a crap about power... they want fun, and I guy hunched over a "killer rig" rabbit bashing on WoW just isn't fun to them.

The card you pickup in 2-3 years would last another 3-4. The card that's in that rig is less then stellar but it gets the job done. 360 will have a shelf life of 5-6 years before the next gen is out. MS is already applying for patents for a new system. To do that that have to be at least a year into R&D for it. That system will cost 800 to 1000 and that's a goddamn certainty. Consoles HAVE to use premium tech to keep up with PCs. PCs don't and therefore will be cheaper in the long run.

Comparing PCs to consoles doesn't really work because difference is primary functions. The original question was will PC gaming survive. My initial response was Yes and consoles won't. The pricing trend for consoles has reached it's zenith. MS is ALREADY losing money on every 360 sold. That means that they will have to raise the price to PS3 levels or even higher next gen. My guess is the latter and with people complaining about the price of the PS3, good luck getting someone to spend 1k on a box that does nothing but play games.

again... your average Joe can not do that. He can't build his own rig... I'm sorry but thats the whole reason why PC gaming sucks for main stream... people don't want to dig inside their electronics... they want to buy them, plug them in, and have them work. They do not want to buy it, play it, buy replacement parts, install them themselves, trouble shoot, call text support because they did something wrong... and so on. To you thats not hard but to them... it is, and till they figure out how to fix that PC gaming can't become main stream. It has to be easy. It has to be plug and play. One touch. You've seen the instructions on the back of shampoo bottles... people are freaking stupid! Most of them don't even know you can take the cover off of a PC!

Think of how much Boxed PCs cost, because main stream buys boxed computers. Now think of what kind of boxed pc you would have to buy to be able to play games like Crysis. We are talking high end box PC's that cost over 1000 bucks. I know you can build one for cheaper and still have it work but to be main stream it has to be boxed, thus the problem.

Your right, no one modded their original xbox console... No one has bought the hard drive upgrade for the xbox 360...

The card you pickup in 2-3 years would last another 3-4. The card that's in that rig is less then stellar but it gets the job done. 360 will have a shelf life of 5-6 years before the next gen is out. MS is already applying for patents for a new system. To do that that have to be at least a year into R&D for it. That system will cost 800 to 1000 and that's a goddamn certainty. Consoles HAVE to use premium tech to keep up with PCs. PCs don't and therefore will be cheaper in the long run.

Comparing PCs to consoles doesn't really work because difference is primary functions. The original question was will PC gaming survive. My initial response was Yes and consoles won't. The pricing trend for consoles has reached it's zenith. MS is ALREADY losing money on every 360 sold. That means that they will have to raise the price to PS3 levels or even higher next gen. My guess is the latter and with people complaining about the price of the PS3, good luck getting someone to spend 1k on a box that does nothing but play games.And I'm going to have to say that you are wrong. I think console gaming has just started to get going. You act as if losing money on a console is something new, it isn't by far. Its normal and they can do it because people will buy the games and thats where the real money comes from, well that and long term like what your seeing the Playstation 2 doing right now. They always lose money on the console thats not news at all or any indication of future failure.

The only one not losing money on each console sold is the one that just happens to be the most popular and the cheapest, the Wii and that just shows us where gaming is going. If it takes something like the Wii to make gaming main stream than be happy that your PC will never be main stream... you don't want it man... I thought I did but damn was I wrong. Be happy that PC gaming is still looked at as being lame... its a blessing. Less you really want "Step up onto the white thing" to come to a PC near you, that is.

Your right, no one modded their original xbox console... No one has bought the hard drive upgrade for the xbox 360...

No Main stream person modded their xbox.. I am right... thats hardcore and if you even try to act like that is being done by the same peolpe that are making gaming become seen as main stream now you are way off base.

As for the hard drive.. I dont need to upgrade that to play my game.. I need it so I can buy more over priced TV shows off of Live. If my video card in my computer sucks.. I can't play crap. Big difference.

You're still touting that "PC gaming isn't mainstream" BS? Let's look at some numbers bro. All of the current gen + last gen boxes sold = somewhere around 29-30 units. Now lets look at PC gaming. (all numbers are millions unless otherwise specified.

WoW = 8 subscriptions
EQ2 = 2 subscritions
Dark Age of Camelot = 500k
Ragnorok = 2 accounts.
There's a free MMO out there that says they have 11 million users!!

That's just MMO stats, and not even all of them.

Please CB, please tell me what the magic "mainstream" number is. I promise you there are just as many, if not more PC gamers out there as there are console gamers. It's much harder to lock down a number though since PCs are sold for business and pleasure. Or in some cases both.

The Wii is great for kids and the older generation but for the "mainstream" gamer, as you put it, it's not doing so well. The average gamer (who btw is a male 22-34 years of age) the Wii is not doing that great with that market. MS and Sony won't put out a system like that. They know who their target market is. I'll give you a hint, it ain't the little old lady down the hall. That's Nintendo's zone.

As far as "computers are hard" I work in Tech support for University of Phoenix. If you don't know anything about UoPHX, allow me to educate you. We have 500,000+ students between all three school. About 30% are nursing students. Of that 30% about half have never used a computer before starting school. Many of them are in their 60s and say "I've never touched a damn computer why the heck did I decide to go to school online!! They can save a person's life but they can't open a Word document. By the end of a 15-20 call they can preform at least the most basic functions on a PC and a few advanced ones.

My point? Anyone can learn a computer. They aren't the scary punch card systems of the 60's and 70s. Hell they aren't even the scary Windows 3.11 or 95 boxes of the last decade. You can't break a computer anymore unless you go looking for trouble. Even then you have to know where to look. MS has done a damn good job of bring PCs to the general public or again as you put it, the "mainstream."

You're still touting that "PC gaming isn't mainstream" BS? Let's look at some numbers bro. All of the current gen + last gen boxes sold = somewhere around 29-30 units. Now lets look at PC gaming. (all numbers are millions unless otherwise specified.

WoW = 8 subscriptions
EQ2 = 2 subscritions
Dark Age of Camelot = 500k
Ragnorok = 2 accounts.
There's a free MMO out there that says they have 11 million users!!

That's just MMO stats, and not even all of them.
Many of these numbers or the same people playing multiple games. That would be like me giving you a list of how many people are playing each and every game on one system and saying that’s how many people are playing on any one console. With that said I’m not saying that there is no money to be made on PC gaming I’m just saying that it hasn’t reached as many people as console gaming has now.

The Wii is great for kids and the older generation but for the "mainstream" gamer, as you put it, it's not doing so well. The average gamer (who btw is a male 22-34 years of age) the Wii is not doing that great with that market. MS and Sony won't put out a system like that. They know who their target market is. I'll give you a hint, it ain't the little old lady down the hall. That's Nintendo's zone.

First when I say mainstream I’m not talking about the 22-34 males. That’s not mainstream that’s a niche of people that have always been into gaming and that’s what the Wii is trying to get away from. They are trying and succeeding in widening the market to bring in a greater cash flow. If you thought I was trying to say that your average gamer niche is too uneducated to learn what it takes to play a game on a PC than I made myself unclear. That’s the only market that PC gaming has going for it. In the end it’s all about how many people you’re bringing to the market that matters to these businesses. When you get all those Oprah watching, CNN obsessed, and Starschmuck drinkers playing than that’s when you have reached out to the “Mainstream”.

So Blix, what you are saying is that pc gaming has no future with non-gamers. It's never had a non-gamer past, and it's not like the people who play MMO's are going to drop them to buy a Wii.

Many people claim that Nintendo is brilliant for bringing the Wii to a wider audience. I don't think they are. While they are indeed selling more consoles right now, consoles aren't where the long term money is made. It's made with software and online gaming. This is where Nintendo's idea to reach a wider audience is going to kick them in the ass. You see the "mainstream" and wider audience are not going to buy lots of games. They will buy a few. They aren't going to go online either. So in the end Nintendo will end up with a bunch of consoles sold and a real slump in software sales.

So Blix, what you are saying is that pc gaming has no future with non-gamers. It's never had a non-gamer past, and it's not like the people who play MMO's are going to drop them to buy a Wii.

Many people claim that Nintendo is brilliant for bringing the Wii to a wider audience. I don't think they are. While they are indeed selling more consoles right now, consoles aren't where the long term money is made. It's made with software and online gaming. This is where Nintendo's idea to reach a wider audience is going to kick them in the ass. You see the "mainstream" and wider audience are not going to buy lots of games. They will buy a few. They aren't going to go online either. So in the end Nintendo will end up with a bunch of consoles sold and a real slump in software sales.You are very much right, PC gaming has no future for non-gamers. Thats kind of been my point the whole time. I never said PC gaming would go away I just said that if it wanted to grow it would have to try and attract the mainstream and the way it stands right now it will never do that.

As for your 2nd point, that hasn't been the case so far. With games like Mario Party 8 selling like hotcakes and now Wii Fit thing appealing to the mass market I think its very much the opposite. And even if they don't buy in the numbers like we are use to when you are making money with each console sold you don't have to sell as much as you needed to in the past. But even that whole point has yet to be proven. If Nintendo keeps putting out the kind of non-games that are so popular with the masses then they will indeed sell more games (I mean uhhh.. more non-games) than you think.

So in the end the people who are playing PC games are the ones who have always played them and thats how its always going to be... you just stated my whole point... its not going to grow. Its just going to be the same market its always been, while the console market keeps selling to a wider market thus growing in profit. Why spend all that time and effort and money to make a kick ass graphically advanced game that will end up selling less units than a crappy low end graphic game like Mario party 8? It's sad but thats where gaming could start going if Nintindos strategy proves to have any merit to it.

Wow CB, I just don't know where to start.... so many inconsistancies.

"First when I say mainstream I’m not talking about the 22-34 males. That’s not mainstream that’s a niche of people that have always been into gaming and that’s what the Wii is trying to get away from"

So by your own definition the Wii is the *only* mainstream console because guess who the target market of the PS3 and the 360 is? That's right, that niche of gamers who play PC games!!

"Many of these numbers or the same people playing multiple games. That would be like me giving you a list of how many people are playing each and every game on one system and saying that’s how many people are playing on any one console."

As I said, I was using that has a barometer of overall gamers since it is IMPOSSIBLE to get an estimate any close to accurate in the PC gaming world. Now if you really want to split hairs, I bought 3 PS2s.... so that 20 million units is off a bit as well. I know 3 people who have bought muliple 360s so the 8 million there is off a tad as well. My point in that shpeel which appearently went over your head was that PC gaming and console gaming have the same popularity level.

"You are very much right, PC gaming has no future for non-gamers. Thats kind of been my point the whole time. I never said PC gaming would go away I just said that if it wanted to grow it would have to try and attract the mainstream and the way it stands right now it will never do that."

You can say the same thing for consoles too. And you'd be dead wrong. Take my wife, When I met her she HATED video games. Guess what her favorite thing to do now is? Play Guitar Hero or DiRT. I've even got her to try WoW. Also how do you think that everytime a 12 year kicks my ass in a deathmatch an old gamer dies? Both consoles and PC gaming will continue to grow in popularity. Get your head out of your ass man.

That's all I've got right now, feel free to come back with more inconsistant and inaccurate line of thought. I'll leave you with some of a disscussion that I had with another tech today. I think it fits in well here.

Tech 1 "So what's the problem"
Tech 2 "Well, the initial problem was retardedness, but I fixed that."

"So by your own definition the Wii is the *only* mainstream console because guess who the target market of the PS3 and the 360 is? That's right, that niche of gamers who play PC games!!"

Yes that is what I’m saying. Console gaming wasn’t being considered mainstream till just recently. And the other two consoles are trying to figure out how to get a piece of this pie… do you think viva piñata was made for the Halo boys? Or how about Little Big Planets kiddy fantastic YouTube approach to gaming?

"As I said, I was using that has a barometer of overall gamers since it is IMPOSSIBLE to get an estimate any close to accurate in the PC gaming world."

It isn’t a big secrete that the game developers are making more money from console games than from PC games. You are right that you can’t gage the numbers of players… so look at the cash instead. If you do you will see that a console game normally makes more cash than a PC game.

"Now if you really want to split hairs, I bought 3 PS2s.... so that 20 million units is off a bit as well. I know 3 people who have bought muliple 360s so the 8 million there is off a tad as well. "

This argument is kind of lame. You’re trying to compare buying mutable systems to buying more than one game. Do you even believe this? The variables are going to be way different. Comparing hardware sales to software sales is not anywhere close to getting an accurate account and that’s why I had to call BS on it.

"My point in that shpeel which appearently went over your head was that PC gaming and console gaming have the same popularity level."

Correction… they had the same popularity level. Computer gaming isn’t making as much as console gaming right now. So in the end your point didn’t go over my head… it was proving that the only thing that floats any more on PC’s is MMOs and if that’s all people are going to be playing on a PC than it isn’t ever going to become a bigger market than it has reached… less it can widen out to people other than the market its hitting right now.

"You can say the same thing for consoles too. And you'd be dead wrong. Take my wife, When I met her she HATED video games. Guess what her favorite thing to do now is? Play Guitar Hero or DiRT. I've even got her to try WoW. Also how do you think that everytime a 12 year kicks my ass in a deathmatch an old gamer dies? Both consoles and PC gaming will continue to grow in popularity. Get your head out of your ass man. "

You give Guitar Hero as an example of a game your wife is playing?... that’s not a computer game man… that’s a console game and it’s one of them nongame games that’s kicking the PC’s ass. As for driving games… those just happen to also be bigger on Consoles than on PC’s. And she tried WoW?... that implies that she doesn’t play it still. And even if she is that doesn’t mean she’s the “norm”, it means she’s the exception.

"That's all I've got right now, feel free to come back with more inconsistant and inaccurate line of thought. I'll leave you with some of a disscussion that I had with another tech today. I think it fits in well here."

Okay if you are right and I am wrong… why is there more money being made by consoles than by PC gaming? I’m not going to call you names because I thought we were just having a debate I didn’t realize I hurt your feelings and you were getting pissed. Sorry man.
No reason to get personal man… chill.

And I don't know if you read other peoples comments but more agreed with me... sorry.

I'm only going to answer one part of your response. It's all invalid mind you but most of it we could go round and round about all day and not get anywhere.

You said: "It isn’t a big secrete that the game developers are making more money from console games than from PC games. You are right that you can’t gage the numbers of players… so look at the cash instead. If you do you will see that a console game normally makes more cash than a PC game. "

I'll give you the response a co-worker said when I read his that statement. "ARE YOU EFFING INSANE!?!"

So you're saying that the console gaming industry is making more then the PC gaming industry?? Dude, WoW ALONE makes as much as the console software industry. Ready for some math? (psst, that where you add number together, they don't lie).

WoW touts 8 million users. Let's assume that 6 million accounts are still active.

6,000,000 * 15 = 90 million per MONTH. Now, I'm not great at math but I think that means their bringing almost 1 billion a year. That's just subscriptions, not new copies of the game and expansions. So tell me CB, how is it that the console industry is making more the PC industry again? Blizzard alone is ZOMGWTFPWNing the software sales of console gaming.

BTW, most of that is pure profit that they are throwing in to the development of other games.

Feel free to try to dispute that Cb but make sure you answer these 2 questions in your next post.

1) Do you agree that the next console from Sony and MS will be more expensive then the current gen? If so, 2) how can you say that console gaming is here to stay when the PS3 is failing on it's price alone?

As for most people in the thread agreeing with you?

Scrubble agrees but hasn't come back since his first post in the thread.

Tk says their all staying

regua is wishy washy at best in his post.

HC is pro PC gaming, especially after the build I pasted.

raynes is pro last gen consoles :P, anti Live anywhere, and neutral on PCs

Eleven agrees with you based on the fact the people will drop 600 on a console instead of PC upgrades, a valid point.

So CB, where are all of these supporters you're talking about?? Are YOU reading the other posts??

I'll give you the response a co-worker said when I read his that statement. "ARE YOU EFFING INSANE!?!" So you're saying that the console gaming industry is making more then the PC gaming industry?? Dude, WoW ALONE makes as much as the console software industry. Ready for some math? (psst, that where you add number together, they don't lie).WoW touts 8 million users. Let's assume that 6 million accounts are still active. 6,000,000 * 15 = 90 million per MONTH. Now, I'm not great at math but I think that means their bringing almost 1 billion a year. That's just subscriptions, not new copies of the game and expansions. So tell me CB, how is it that the console industry is making more the PC industry again? Blizzard alone is ZOMGWTFPWNing the software sales of console gaming.

This is where the “most” part of my comment comes in. You are right that WoW is doing a great job but that’s not an issue if we are still debating if PC gaming will grow in its appeal to the mass market. Just because every nerd and his friends are playing a game does not by any means make it mass market. D&D is a huge success in the Paper and Pencil RPG world. It’s boasting a very long long run in sales that are gigantic but it is by no means mass market. It’s niche and that’s what I’ve been arguing about.

One games killer success doesn’t negate all of the profits that game developers are making on the consoles. WoWs the fluke man, but it’s not made to suck in the mass market; it’s made to bleed the current market dry by having them shell out 15 bucks every month to level up their blood elf. In less you are trying to say that WoW is attracting the mass market… are you?

There is really just one huge problem with MMO’s for PC’s. Most players only play one at a time. That’s why it’s so hard to make a profitable MMO, the game has to steal people from one of the other MMO’s to gain followers. Remember when EQ was huge and everyone we knew was playing it?... now it’s WoW. This isn’t anything new.

Do you agree that the next console from Sony and MS will be more expensive then the current gen?

No, I do not think the next gen consoles have to be more expensive. I just don’t. Not with the Wii sweeping the floor with everyone else and it being the cheapest and least graphically advanced system out there.

But even if it wasn’t there is no way Sony is going to make the next console cost more than this one and they don’t have to, you’ve already shown that you can build a great computer for 550 bucks or something and well… that’s all these people are doing. They are building a PC for Gaming. They just take out of the work for t he consumer because even with that great rig you showed... average Joe wouldn't know a good computer from a Gateway PC. That’s always what it’s been about.

If they can get away with making it a huge cost they will, but they know they can’t now so they just won’t. It’s not good for their money growth.

When I said most people agree with me I was talking about after our debating started how 2 people agreed with me and a 1 is neutral. I thought HC was agreeing with me because of his post that said he was. Just because he liked the computer you built doesn’t mean he agrees with you. But I could be wrong.

I’m going to state this again. I’m not being an ass to you so don’t be an ass to me man. You can trash my argument, I’m fine with that, just don’t trash me. Just because I don’t agree with you doesn’t mean you can talk shit about me. Cool down. This is a debate. I’m sure you can act like an adult about it, so please man… chill.

Dude, you're basically saying that because only one or two games are doing well PC gaming is as a whole is less popular then consoles? Name 5 games on the 360 that are a huge success. name 3 on the PS3. I can name atleast one in every genre on the PC.

RTS: Command and Conquer: Generals and Tiberium Wars. Starcraft.

FPS: Doom3, Quake 4, Battlefield(the whole series), CS : S

Action: Diablo 3, Hero quest (I think that's the name of the new hack and slash.

I was pointing out that you're wrong that the industry as a *whole* is making less then console games. That was your point, not mine. Yeah, GoW has made more then Doom. DiRT has made more then NASCAR 2006. You weren't saying individual games, you were saying the *entire* industy. Newsflash bud, If you're talking about the PC gaming industry you can't pick and chose the titles to use to gauge popularity. I could just as easily say, yeah the 360 has made a lot of money with GoW, but that just and FPS, look at how Spiderman 3 is doing. I'm giving cold hard facts, you're spinning them to suit you. Stop. No, really. Stop.

PCs have a longer shelf life then consoles. That PC 2 years ago would have been upwards of 1500-2k.

Tech gets more expensive as it gets better. You've already said that the Wii is main stream because it reach outside of the "niche". We've established that the tech and games the tech allows the 360 and Ps3 to display is why the "hardcore" gamers enjoy it. So by your own argument, the next gen systems will have to have the top tech to attract the hardcores. Which as I've established in the first sentence of this paragraph will be more expensive. for the next gen. Now I'm not a rocket scientist but that tells me that the next gen console are going to cost way more. As does history.

Remember my time line of console prices? They doubled and tripled from the last gen to the one. With the exception of the system that doesn't reach out to the gamers we're discussing every other system's price has risen significantly. So how can you base your assumptions on a system that is not targeting the market we're discussing? You've said that you don't want gamers don't want the Wii. You don't that that MS and Sony know this? Do you really think that their going to switch business plans and start trying to compete with Nintendo.... ok Sony might because their business plan right now sucks. MS though knows that Nintendo has been doing their thing for 23 years and they won't try to put out a system that directly competes with the Nintendo. It's suicide.

So the only option is to put out a system for gamers, which give the history of console price rising each Gen, and Tech becoming pricier each year, with rival a mid range computer in price.

Stop spinning arguments your way and stick to facts. Every post you flip to something else that's just as invalid and inaccurate as the last. Fisr the Wii is bad and MS and Sony aren't targeting the same market. Now they're going to change their game plan and make a cheap system that none of *us* want? Get real.

EDIT: Added a big block of text.
EDIT2: P.S. The forum name is sarcastic gamer. If you can't take some playful ribbing, don't respond. I'm sure that in our stays here we'll agree on a lot. Just not this one :P

I used to worry about PCs dying in games. When the 16 it consoles came out, I didn't know much about gaming, and only had a PC. When PlayStation and N64 came out, i was afraid that PCs wouldn't have any games. Then, when Playstation 2, GC and XBox came out, I thought PCs were dead.

And now, we're here again with the PS3, Wii, and XBox 360. Over all of these years, I haven't had a problem with PC. I use computers a lot, so the extra price for graphic hardware is cheap to me. I never have problems finding games, as there are millions of them out for PC. Agreed, the PC market is swarmed with FPS, RTS, and MMOs, but it is also the only system with a wide variety of free games in terms of MODs, home-devs, free MMOs, and old classics.

For people who like to make games, PC gaming is a must. Consoles are starting to introduce console development, but you still need a PC. e may see a turnaround in the PC and Console markets, where console gaming will become more popular than PC. In my opinion, it already is, since every PC gamer I know has a console.

The one fact that I know which is extrememly relevent is the cost to make games. On a PC, the game is always cheaper. It's a free market for game creators, unlike consoles which are extrememly licensed and give you less cash for each game sold. You might sell more, but this is why games eventually come out for PC in the end. Some don't, but a lot will.

Do I think PCs will die for gaming? No. They never will. They just might not have a wide range of variety (FPS, RTS, MMO). Variety isn't much of an issue though. Just ask one of the 7 million WoW players which pay $15 a month to play. PCs may lose games in other genres, but MMOs, RTS, and FPS games will never die for PC.

Very well thought out. I still think that Console gaming is head down a dead end, but I agree with a lot of what you said.... Except for this:

Just ask one of the 7 million WoW players which pay $15 a month to play.

It's 9 million now :P

I'm not all up on the latest tech news so maybe I am n00bishly naive but why haven't the cable TV whore companies developed a cable box that can do what the consoles do, and then set up "channels" or "pay-per-games" or subs to suck more money out of us?

I don't see PC gaming dying off completely, ever, but it's getting pretty sketchy now, not many good titles to choose from. I can't see why this trend would change when consoles seem to be getting much more powerful.

Flint50 - As Lleu said - Very well thought.
I wanted to say that PC games sometimes are more profitable for creators.

P.S. That's why most PC games could be sold for a wery fair price in some countries (as I said earlier - Russians can grab most games around 10$) and still be profitable.

P.P.S. EA is coming to us! EA Russia will be opened 26 of July! (Great for us I hope.)

Very well thought out. I still think that Console gaming is head down a dead end, but I agree with a lot of what you said.... Except for this:

Just ask one of the 7 million WoW players which pay $15 a month to play.

It's 9 million now :P

Buzzard claims nine million but they "cook" the numbers by including free trials, and they probably dropped the calculator on the floor a few times, as well. Way, way inflated numbers. Buzzard is one of the most dishonest companies in the industry. But, they certainly did prove one point: millions of people will play a crappy mmorpg if the system reqs are low enough to run on their crappy pc's.

Sorry, not trying to trolljack this thread.

Flint50 - As Lleu said - Very well thought.
I wanted to say that PC games sometimes are more profitable for creators.

P.S. That's why most PC games could be sold for a wery fair price in some countries (as I said earlier - Russians can grab most games around 10$) and still be profitable.

P.P.S. EA is coming to us! EA Russia will be opened 26 of July! (Great for us I hope.)

$10 is not a fair price for the developer and publisher. As you know, the only reason Russia gets it for that price, is because they can't control the sales of piracy any other way.

Volkov - Yep. That's true. But! If they're selling them with that price tag - that means it's still profitable. The only difference in piracy levels within Russia (and some other countries) that you can buy\download games everywhere in Russia (Actually the number of places slowly reducing). In other countries you must know where to get this.

P.S. That price tag is the only one - cause we [accustomed to that price]* historically. Cause for the long time the only game publishers were pirates :D.

* Google translated piece. (I want to write "stucked")

Volkov - Yep. That's true. But! If they're selling them with that price tag - that means it's still profitable. The only difference in piracy levels within Russia (and some other countries) that you can buy\download games everywhere in Russia (Actually the number of places slowly reducing). In other countries you must know where to get this.

P.S. That price tag is the only one - cause we [accustomed to that price]* historically. Cause for the long time the only game publishers were pirates :D.

* Google translated piece. (I want to write "stucked")

Of course its profitable when you look at the small picture of what the publisher paid to make the physical materials (CD/DVDs, Manual, Casing). But in the big picture, if the games were sold for $10 worldwide, there is no way in hell it would be profitable.

Alright Lleu how about we just agree to disagree. I think we are both getting bored of the debate. It was fun though.

Do any of you guys think that PC gaming has to change anything to become more of a competitor with the consoles or do you think that they can stick to the MMO's and such and keep on turning out profits?

My only worry is that it's starting to cost more and more to make games and thus they are going to run into a problem with justifying the costs. There is a reason why there are not that many on going MMO's, they are a bitch to make for the possibility of little success. It's really only sink or swim, there hardly seems to be a happy middle ground with them.

Volkov - again that's true. But I'm wondering wht PC games could be sold for 10$ in Russia and Console's game price tag is high as hell for our market - It's even highen then worldwide. 70$+ for a game... Just WHY? What the hell are they thinking?

That's the first reason why there's so strong PC market and so small console one.

Edit: But if you sell you game for 10$ (or 20$) insted of 60$ much more people would buy a game (and a console I think). And may-be that would bring even more profits...

Yeah, the life cycle of an MMO is relatively short, very few have been able to "make it" EQ, WoW, Dark Age of Camelot, and EQ2 are the only ones that spring to mind right now. (WTF, me and CB agree.... shit) :P

Although on the horizon is

God and Heros /drool
Age of Conan /doubledrool and
War hammer /stickypants

One of those three will at least cut into WoW's profits. If all three take off, Blizzard is going to have to really work to keep players. Do something drastic, like World of Starcraft. How effing awesome would THAT be?!

Yeah, the life cycle of an MMO is relatively short, very few have been able to "make it" EQ, WoW, Dark Age of Camelot, and EQ2 are the only ones that spring to mind right now. (WTF, me and CB agree.... shit) :P

Although on the horizon is

God and Heros /drool
Age of Conan /doubledrool and
War hammer /stickypants

One of those three will at least cut into WoW's profits. If all three take off, Blizzard is going to have to really work to keep players. Do something drastic, like World of Starcraft. How effing awesome would THAT be?!Wow thats really scary.. the us agreeing part and the world of starcraft part...eww.. That would not be awesome... in fact I'm pretty sure thats one of the signs of the Apocalypse!

There you go being all wrong again. WoS would own. I want to be an Overlord!

What can I say, I'll never understand MMO's, and I tried... I really did. I played LOTR online for like 3 weeks... once I got to the whole "fellowship" part though I just got tired of dealing with real players. I guess I'm not a team player.

For me MMO's boring too. I've played WoW for a week.. EQ2 for 9months! Cause it was fully and beautifully translated & for the first time it was really interesting.. but once I've completed basic part.. Raiding,Raiding,Raiding... And at some point it became really boring. So I'm not playing any more... (P.S. Subscription is not canceled - so if anyone want to experience Russian version of EQ2 - I could give the details. :D )

But I really looking foward to Conan and Warhammer. For sevral months I think it would be great.

P.S. CharlieBlix - try some FPS teamplay games. Or RTS teamplay (such as WIC [P.S. I have 1 unused BETA account - so if anyone want to play :D P.M. me.] ) .

raynes is pro last gen consoles :P, anti Live anywhere, and neutral on PCs
LOL, did I sound that way? I'm actually a big fan of PC gaming.


Do any of you guys think that PC gaming has to change anything to become more of a competitor with the consoles or do you think that they can stick to the MMO's and such and keep on turning out profits?

My only worry is that it's starting to cost more and more to make games and thus they are going to run into a problem with justifying the costs. There is a reason why there are not that many on going MMO's, they are a bitch to make for the possibility of little success. It's really only sink or swim, there hardly seems to be a happy middle ground with them.

Ah, now I understand where the issue is. You feel that PC gaming has to compete with console gaming. I don't, nor do I think anyone in the industry feels that way. You are seeing more publishing of mainstream titles on the pc, not because there is competition, but because development of 360 games starts on the pc. In the publishers eyes, putting a game on the PC costs very little and will make them money.

As for MMO's, there are actually a ton of them. Just to name some of the more successful ones:
WoW
EQ2
EQ
Eve
Dark Age of Camelot
City of Heroes / City of Villains
D&D Online
Second Life
Linage 1 & 2
Puzzle Pirates
Guild Wars
Final Fantasy XI
Ragnarok
Maple Story

raynes is pro last gen consoles :P, anti Live anywhere, and neutral on PCs
LOL, did I sound that way? I'm actually a big fan of PC gaming.


Do any of you guys think that PC gaming has to change anything to become more of a competitor with the consoles or do you think that they can stick to the MMO's and such and keep on turning out profits?

My only worry is that it's starting to cost more and more to make games and thus they are going to run into a problem with justifying the costs. There is a reason why there are not that many on going MMO's, they are a bitch to make for the possibility of little success. It's really only sink or swim, there hardly seems to be a happy middle ground with them.

Ah, now I understand where the issue is. You feel that PC gaming has to compete with console gaming. I don't, nor do I think anyone in the industry feels that way. You are seeing more publishing of mainstream titles on the pc, not because there is competition, but because development of 360 games starts on the pc. In the publishers eyes, putting a game on the PC costs very little and will make them money.

As for MMO's, there are actually a ton of them. Just to name some of the more successful ones:
WoW
EQ2
EQ
Eve
Dark Age of Camelot
City of Heroes / City of Villains
D&D Online
Second Life
Linage 1 & 2
Puzzle Pirates
Guild Wars
Final Fantasy XI
Ragnarok
Maple StoryI know there is a ton of them.. but hardly any of them are still up and running with a substantial about of people playing them. Oh and Second Life is not a MMO. Its a joke and a half.

Oh and Second Life is not a MMO. Its a joke and a half.

Quoted for the ultimate truth. The "game" looks like someone puked on The Sims Online, and it's just as bad.

the pc gaming we be here for a long time thanks to nvidia and ati developers will fight and strugle showing how much potentil their game can have in terms of graphics and stuff like this

Personally I am not worried one bit. I remember this same discussion years ago when the PS2 and X-Box first dropped onto the scene. I have not purchased a console since the X-Box..though I do nab some 360 time with my boyz now and then. But really, I am die hard PC to the bone.

The 360 and PS3 look great, and we have indeed lost some of exclusives...but developers still cannot show off half what they can really do on a console. And of course thats cause we are talking a 800 max piece of hardware vs a 2500 dollar or more gaming rig. The bleeding edge of tech will always make PC gaming a reality.

Consoles will remain the dominate brother from now on because of the price...it has cost half my soul and a few baby sacrifices to stay up to date....but I have no doubt really high end games will continue to come out...even if they have less polished versions available on console.