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In our 56th episode we discuss the spectacle that was E3 2009.* We go into detail on our thoughts about the cinematic Uncharted 2: Among Thieves demonstration, the 256-player debut of live MAG gameplay, some debate over God of War 3, and a little bit about the upcoming customizable kart game ModNation Racers.* We also had a pretty detailed discussion of Sony’s new motion control tech demo, the whole PSP go debut and much more.

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Wow, maybe it is just me, but I thought the music this episode worked really great. Frawlz, I love ya! We did a good show! Weeeeee!

In regards to the motion control cameras I agree with Frawlz on this one, did I just say that, they are marketing to the wrong crowd. The casual market is not going to get a PS3 just because of the Piimote, the Wii has already secured that market. About your suggestion on what if the PS3 is released at $299 with a camera and a Piimote in 2 years? Well I would say that’s two more years of mainstream titles for the Wii that would convince buyers to STILL go with the cheaper version with mainstream branding.

I don’t think any of these controllers will make a significant difference until implemented into the next console cycle.

In regards to the motion control cameras I agree with Frawlz on this one, did I just say that, they are marketing to the wrong crowd. The casual market is not going to get a PS3 just because of the Piimote, the Wii has already secured that market. About your suggestion on what if the PS3 is released at $299 with a camera and a Piimote in 2 years? Well I would say that’s two more years of mainstream titles for the Wii that would convince buyers to STILL go with the cheaper version with mainstream branding.

I don’t think any of these controllers will make a significant difference until implemented into the next console cycle.

Let me preface this response by saying I'm not picking on you specifically Zvolen, I wanted to talk more about this with Pacman and Frawlz, but the segment was already running long...

I think EVERYONE is missing the point. Before the Wii, who owned the casual market? Who? Playstation. Pacman was right... you and I shouldn't care too much about this, it'll be a long while before that tech meets most of our gaming needs, but until then I think it's VERY VERY VERY smart that they start NOW working on tech that can meet the needs of the new casual gamer that knows (and likely knows the limitations of) the Wii. When/if they're ready to move on and Wii2 doesn't quite meet their needs, the PS3 will still be there with hundreds of traditional games AND games of the type they're accustomed to.

One thing I think people need to stop doing is taking THEIR impression of a system's use/strengths/offerings and applying it to everyone else.

Someone can own a PS3 right now and only use it for Rock Band, Guitar Hero, Karaoke Revolution, Singstar, Buzz, etc. That same exact hardware can be owned by someone else playing Killzone 2, Uncharted, inFAMOUS, Resistance 2, Warhawk, etc. One isn't "better" than the other. Also, forget the whole "you need an HDTV if you own a PS3" stance too... gamers "like us"... like the people listening to a gaming podcast (lol, or MAKING one!) already have an HDTV, sure. Other folks... won't (and likely won't even care.) I don't buy that an HDTV is required for a PS3 and people that would buy this motion control won't have an HDTV. I don't think that's a sound argument, honestly. HDTVs are slowly becoming the standard just by buying a new TV... people getting new TVs will get HDTVs just by needing/buying a new TV, not by specifically saying "You know, standard definition isn't good enough, I need to go buy an HDTV." It'll just happen.

Much like we all made fun of the Wii, predicting its failure and imminent demise, the Wii went out and gathered NEW gamers instead of converting existing gamers. I guess I don't see why we can't think the same about this. Why are we expecting this to fail because we won't be converted to playing games via motion control? My beef with the Wii wasn't entirely because it used motion control, it was because largely I didn't care for the games and developers largely didn't know how to effectively use motion control. The latter is being remedied over time before PS3 motion control games are even out.

Keep in mind that by the time this tech hits retail, the PS3 will likely be $299 which is only a $50 premium over the price the Wii has always been at. Tell me you can't see a $50 value in what the PS3 can do that the Wii can't... tell me so I can kick you in the nuts. :lol:

We'll agree to disagree (for now) because it's useless to argue this fiercely before the thing's remotely close to being released, but I think you guys are applying your view of gaming today when you should be applying a wider view of "new gaming" to what's probably 18 months away at the soonest. Cheaper PS3, larger install base, a better glimpse of what we should actually see on the market from this tech, etc.

Wow, when Frawlz was saying Gears of War instead of God of War I nearly rolled over laughing. He was getting so pissed that he didn't even realise that he did in fact say it this time! Great show! I just had a tough exam and it made my day when I saw that the blue show was already available (in Europe we tend to only see the next morning what came out the day before due to the time difference)

We'll agree to disagree (for now) because it's useless to argue this fiercely before the thing's remotely close to being released, but I think you guys are applying your view of gaming today when you should be applying a wider view of "new gaming" to what's probably 18 months away at the soonest. Cheaper PS3, larger install base, a better glimpse of what we should actually see on the market from this tech, etc.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/global_warming.png

You get the point :thumbsup:

We can only know once this stuff comes out, until then, we can only guess and predict :undecided:

However, some of it does look frickin' amazing

Great show guys :thumbsup: Frawlz... you will die listening back over your 'Gears of War' bit

Let me preface this response by saying I'm not picking on you specifically Zvolen,
Trust me, I don't take anything personally on a forum. So no worries.


I think EVERYONE is missing the point. Before the Wii, who owned the casual market? Who? Playstation. Pacman was right... you and I shouldn't care too much about this, it'll be a long while before that tech meets most of our gaming needs, but until then I think it's VERY VERY VERY smart that they start NOW working on tech that can meet the needs of the new casual gamer that knows (and likely knows the limitations of) the Wii. When/if they're ready to move on and Wii2 doesn't quite meet their needs, the PS3 will still be there with hundreds of traditional games AND games of the type they're accustomed to.
I would argue that like you said the Wii didn't "take" the casual market from Sony, but rather made gamers out of non-gamers. The casual crowd that Sony had is either still with Sony or Microsoft.

It was the point of my earlier post to state that personally I don't care about these controls but also don't discount their efforts, yes its smart but it won't make an immediate impact or even an impact during this console generation. Those positions have already been filled, you want a "casual gaming console" you buy a Wii not a PS3 on the hope of the future.


Someone can own a PS3 right now and only use it for Rock Band, Guitar Hero, Karaoke Revolution, Singstar, Buzz, etc.
They can, but they won't -- generally speaking. The group that is looking for a console to play those types of games won't be the ones that purchase the most expensive console.



Keep in mind that by the time this tech hits retail, the PS3 will likely be $299 which is only a $50 premium over the price the Wii has always been at. Tell me you can't see a $50 value in what the PS3 can do that the Wii can't... tell me so I can kick you in the nuts. :lol: Me, of course. I own a PS3 and paid much more than that but you are assuming way too much. You even said yourself.. One thing I think people need to stop doing is taking THEIR impression of a system's use/strengths/offerings and applying it to everyone else.

All of these are just personal opinion, the PS3 is what it is -- not much will change during this cycle.

Whew! I can't believe I actually got through all of that.

Rothbart, you are correct sir. These motion controls also help men convince their wives that the PS3 is a good buy, and that everyone in the house can enjoy it. It won't make a large impact in console sales immediately, but it is a good move overall.

Frawlz, what would it take to make GoW3 appeal to you? The best that I can figure is; the ability to wander aimlessly in a dress with little interaction, and around the clock weather updates from around the world? Just curious, how many full retail release games have you finished in the last 12 months?

Listening to this while writing this.

Man it sounds like Frawlz is getting butchered! :lol:

Frawlz, what would it take to make GoW3 appeal to you? The best that I can figure is; the ability to wander aimlessly in a dress with little interaction, and around the clock weather updates from around the world? Just curious, how many full retail release games have you finished in the last 12 months?

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m95/rothbart_photos/interweb_memes/full_of_win_2001.jpg

I think I saw Frawlz play Wipeout once, it's life with playstation every other time though.

Wow, maybe it is just me, but I thought the music this episode worked really great. Frawlz, I love ya! We did a good show! Weeeeee!

I thought the music was really good too.

Rothbart, you are correct sir. These motion controls also help men convince their wives that the PS3 is a good buy, and that everyone in the house can enjoy it. It won't make a large impact in console sales immediately, but it is a good move overall.

Frawlz, what would it take to make GoW3 appeal to you? The best that I can figure is; the ability to wander aimlessly in a dress with little interaction, and around the clock weather updates from around the world? Just curious, how many full retail release games have you finished in the last 12 months?

Yes they will help convince your wife to play (just like LBP right, lol)... but what I was saying, was that it will not convince your wife to ask you to buuuuuy a PS3.

Look, no one in their right mind will buy a PS3 for it's motion control. Casual gamers don't like complex buttons, setup or a massive price of just the console it's self. I am using casual gamers because they are the ones companies associate motion gaming with.

Ok, so even if a person buys a $400 gaming system, they they will have to buy the camera and the wand. Yes, they may bundle it, but I don't see it being less then 50 bucks. Then you have to spend another 60 bucks on a game.

Ok, so lets say they they decided to buy the system, wand and the camera. but the games are only available for the PSN. So now you have to convince someone to put their CC info in the system and teach them how to download, install, and run the game. To you and I, it isn't that hard. But to a casual gamer... it is hard enough to not want to pick up the system ever again. Let's face it, the PS3's software, does not make it a user friendly experience when the first time gamer picks up the controller... errr wand.

Most people that own a Nintendo Wii, don't even know it can be hooked up to a network. Also, Nintendo has the lowest attach rate of all the systems. Why? because it makes it easy by giving you one. People who want this kind of gaming system don't go out and read gaming mags, or watch E3 coverage. they don't care. They like what they have and enjoy what came with it.

The PS3 is not meant for the gamers that want to jump around. It was created to be the most powerful console game ever made. You don't see to many soccer moms going in to buy a lamborghini.

What Sony is doing is taking that lamborghini and putting a TV in the back that is playing spongebob and expect that the soccer moms, grandpa, and other casual gamers will come running.

What I am trying to say is... it is a little to late for Sony at this point. Even if it is only 3 years in it's cycle. The system is to expensive and wasn't made or marketed for anyone that would be interested for a gaming wand.

I think Sony should really start to look at why their online community support sucks, instead of making sticks with balls.

Ok, so back to me...

Yes, I like a lot of games on the system. I have played 3 GoW games and loved all of them. I didn't say I didn't like the way it looked. I was saying that before it was unveiled in playable form at E3, people had said that it had the most amazing graphics. Best they have ever seen, and the detail on the characters were blowing people away. I, and a lot of people were like... ok, it looks good, but it wasn't jaw dropping... like a lot of people expected. I can't wait for this game. I am excite for this game. I bought a PSP just to be able to play Chains of Olympus. All I was saying was that I wasn't in awe of what i saw.

As for my game playing... I have a new job that doesn't allow me to play as much as most people. I love games and I love playing them. I don't always get to finnish every game I play... hence why i never write a gaming review. Ha! :grin:

Plus, Chumbolonogiousess (I'm to lazy to check the spelling) , I played several games with you, so you know I play.

I know I have a negative view on a lot of things when it comes to what Sony does. But I really see great things in this machine. I know it has so much more potential and it frustrates me. I wish more people felt this way. Maybe we would see a good party system sometime in the next year.

I love your spelling of my name. That is way more complicated than the phonetic reality, but still awesome.

You make a very good point about selling the all the hardware to the casual gamer so that they can solely have the casual gaming experience. MS isn't going to tap in that market either. Most of those people already have a Wii, or want a Wii. Neither Sony nor Microsoft are going to take that away from them. This directed at the household that already has a core gamer in it. Oddly enough Jack Tretton keeps mentioning how these controls can be implemented in just about every game that is out today for the PS3. So I wouldn't be surprised you see some updates to at least the first party games to work with these controls. This is either crazy or genius. Either way it is a long term strategy, and this won't effect us(core gamers) for a long time.

I know you are busy. They seem to keep you on the road a lot, which would really suck. I am in the opposite position, I am the only person that can do my job. I can't even take 2 days off in a week. Anyway, the point is that your very strong opinions are rarely based on sufficient experience with the games. I like that you tend to have a counterpoint. It balances the show, and makes for good conflict. I don't want to listen to group of guys agreeing.

I have only played with you a couple of times on KZ2. It was a blast, you are fun to play with. I just wish you would play more.

Frawlz, nobody will buy a PS3 for the motion control because it's not OUT yet. We're talking the "new" motion control, not SIXAXIS. By the time it's out, I can GUARANTEE the PS3 will not be $399.

I think you have a narrow viewpoint to this whole issue and my kids (who jump around in front of EyeToy games) would like a word with you...

Nobody said this new motion control would SELL SYSTEMS... it's just one more thing to add to the aggregate value of the Playstation offering. IMO, that's how PS2 won its generation. Not any single individual feature or game, but a crapton of varied offerings.

I think the xbox thing looks cooler simply since it is full body. Although the ps3 motion control does have alot of potential we can't help but think it is just a wii rip off that's painted different. Still i can see alot of potential, more than what the wii has.

Well before I attempt to collate my thoughts on the motion controls issue, which may take a while considering how many different aspects have been discussed, I'd like to make a few small points:

Wow, maybe it is just me, but I thought the music this episode worked really great. Frawlz, I love ya! We did a good show! Weeeeee!

I too enjoyed the music this week and always appreciate the A-Team theme over the 1st segment. :grin:

Frawlz... you will die listening back over your 'Gears of War' bit

Tell me about it, Frawlz should hang his head in shame :tongue:

I have only played with you a couple of times on KZ2. It was a blast, you are fun to play with. I just wish you would play more.

Here here! Good times :grin:

it is just a wii rip off that's painted different

Which I'd like to remind everyone has ZERO bearing on what it can/will do. I'm guessing we'll have plenty of time to come to grip with that before the thing's actually out.

Now, Uncharted being similiar to Gears... THAT I can see.

God of War 3 will most likely be the best looking game for the PS3 to date but it may be pushing the PS3 to the absolute max outside of game engine optimizations. When the Gamespot staff interviewed a guy who is working on God of War 3, a few things were mentioned.

The E3 build of God of War 3 was running at 720P. They promise to have it up to 1080P by the time it releases. We all know how many games have promised this in the past but it would end up not having. I'm sure God of War 3 will support 1080P but it was an interesting thing to say regardless.

The other thing that was mentioned was that the game will not run at a stable 60 frames per second. Instead, it will juggle between 30 - 60 depending on what's going on in the game at the given time. He also mentioned how GoW 2 dipped under 20 FPS at times & caused slowdowns so they did something to make sure that wont happen in GoW3. We'll see though as 1080P is more aggressive than 720P on a console.

Gears of War 2 has an excellent cover system & it set the standard on how it should be done in third person shooters. Don't even try to debate that cus ya know Frawlz is right :thumbsup:.

I was not all that impressed with the MAG demonstration. I wanted to see the 256 vs 256 be done straight up. Not some BS squad thing they showed before cutting the demo off saying the next part is when all the players meet up. If the game is going to be done like that, it will tank hard to franchises like the Rainbow Six, Ghost Recon & Call of Duty.

I was really impressed with modnation racers. Like Doc, I'll most likely not bother playing it but I'll really enjoy making a crapton of well designed tracks. It's a hobby of mines on the PC end to make maps & mods for PC games across many genres. I'll be a ringer for a game like modnation.

I was turned off big time by the PSP Go. It's a step forward & a step back in the same package. No UMD which is debatable of if that is a good or bad thing. Smaller screen which is a really bad move in my opinion & the higher price tag will not impress many people either. I like the PSP more than the DS but at least Nintendo got it right with the DSI which was a huge improvement across the board over the DS. Bigger screens, added features, stronger CPU, more memory, cameras, etc. People are better off with a PSP 2000 or 3000. The 16 gig approach seems to be an attack towards the Iphone/Ipod touch as well as it can bring apps to the PS. We'll see how this all turns out.

Uncharted 2 looked awesome & it will be the next PS3 game I'll bother to get.

-LatinLegacy

I'm sure God of War 3 will support 1080P but it was an interesting thing to say regardless.

I'm not going to hold my breath on that one...

Gears of War 2 has an excellent cover system & it set the standard on how it should be done in third person shooters. Don't even try to debate that cus ya know Frawlz is right :thumbsup:.

Nah, my biggest complaint (besides when his comparisons were wrong) that somehow being similar to Gears was being described as if it were a bad thing. I really liked those games. It's another one of those things I think people say to say. Innovation isn't absolutely required for every single game to be good.

I was not all that impressed with the MAG demonstration. I wanted to see the 256 vs 256 be done straight up. Not some BS squad thing

It's 256 total, so 128 vs 128. Straight-up deathmatch where all 256 players could meet up would be chaos IMO. Imagine 256 grenades being tossed at once... :undecided:

Uncharted 2 looked awesome

Meh, it's just another Gears knock-off... LOL. I kid, I kid. Uncharted 2 looks like a blast to me (single player for me of course!)

Good episode :thumbsup: Very funny and a good debate. I think it will be a long while before we see how the announcements of motion controls for the other two systems effects the gaming market. At the moment, most of the casual gaming market probably has little or no idea that Sony has even announced motion controls (having said this a large portion of the casual gaming market is probably completely unaware that the Wii has motion controls :grin:)

Uncharted 2 looked awesome

Yes, yes it does! Although like Roth, I'm more interested in the single player. Not that the MP looks bad, it looks just like Gears! :grin:

Chumbolonogiousess
:lol::lol::lol:

Nah, my biggest complaint (besides when his comparisons were wrong) that somehow being similar to Gears was being described as if it were a bad thing. I really liked those games. It's another one of those things I think people say to say. Innovation isn't absolutely required for every single game to be good.
)

I never once said that having a game "like" Gears 2 was a bad thing. Hell, the Gears of War games are great.

Your right that innovation isn't required for every game. but let's remember that when you have a blockbuster title like Uncharted 2, people are going to make comparisons. Yes, it has a cover system... so when you are explaining it on a podcast to people who have not see the game, then you need to explain it in a way that people can picture in their mind.

While Pacman jumps all over me about the climbing mechanic in the game, yes, I understand that. But it is a small element that can be over looked. The characters on the screen are slow at climbing. Not always a good thing on a small map. So while it is nice to climb up things... it also can hurt and frustrate players.

While I mention the speed factor of the ability to climb... lets not forget about the slowness of when you pick up a gas tank. You start walking at an extremely slow pace. This makes you an easy target for everyone... not just snipers.

I find it funny that the tank weighs you down to a crawl, but you are able to throw it up to another floor in a building.

I get that it is a first attempt at a mulitplayer add on. But you would think they would have learned a lot more from the previous games that got it right.

Oh and before I forget... what is the deal with not being able to headshot someone? 0 armer, and they take 7 direct shots to kill? I mean... seriously?????

All in all, the game is in beta. So maybe a lot of these things will be addressed and fixed. So while I have some complaints about the multiplayer aspect... I am holding my complete judgement until the game comes out.

I have a feeling this whole motion controller thing will fail on a monumental scale for both parties Ps3 and Xbox...Because if the casual gamer wants to buy a gaming system he/she is going for the cheapest one that is specific for the casual gamer. A.K.A the wii..
These two hardcore gamer powerhouses should have stuck to their guns and focused on the spending money on something that is guaranteed to make them money

Oh and before I forget... what is the deal with not being able to headshot someone? 0 armer, and they take 7 direct shots to kill? I mean... seriously?????


Really? Is everyone having this problem or are you just bad?

I think Sony's motion controls will be great but nobody will buy them. Real gamers will not buy it because they don't have any good games and the casual consumer will buy the ps3 without knowing they need to buy additional stuff.

Also Rothbart just hates LatinLegacy.

I'm more excited for, and looking forward to ModNation Racers more than I am for about half the games they showed at the e3 press conference.
Rothbart, did you ever make your own go-kart tracks on Rollercoaster Tycoon? That was the game that came to mind when I saw them demoing Racers at the Sony E3 PC. I cannot wait to get my hands on this one.
Regarding the Motion Control stuff (or All-Axis, as I like to call it), I agree that it won't be a system seller by itself. BUT, I do think that when people see that the PS3 can now do what the Wii does (and possibly better) it may sway some people to Sony's side. Yeah, they may have to pay more for the whole package, but they're getting a hell of a lot more for their money. It is going to be vital for Sony to package the camera and two of the controllers in with the syste., though. If they can't see that, then they're f'n dumbasses.
As for Uncharted 2 MP beta, I think it's f'n sweet. You really do have to take the verticallity and "platform" components of the game into consideration when trying to compare it to other 3rd person shooters. I found a spot in the night level where you can climb all the way up a lightpole, stand on the light itself, and just shoot away at the opposing team. It's not a place people usually look to, so you won't get shot at much. I'm sure there are a few spots like that in just those two boards, so I can imagine the full game will have a lot of them.
That's my 2 cents for now. Great show, as always, love the A-Team inspired intro.

Alright lets have a go at this opinion mumbo jumbo. As far as the motion controllers go, for the most part I agree with Rothbart. I think that Sony is right to be looking into the casual scene, if not for this generation then for the next. As Rothbart said, I don't think this alone will shift consoles but considering the price of the PS3 will have dropped along with the possible appeal of the Blu Ray player, it could be interesting to families.

I think as far as Sony v MS in motion control terms goes, the Natal will be better long term but short term Sony's is better. If Sony can get their product out and implemented sooner rather than later, there are a lot of more obvious uses but the kind of facial recognition software and other features related to Milo, has more potential for the future so Sony should really start looking into that.

As for people saying Sony's motion control won't have any effect on us hardcore gamers for a long time, I think there is a slight chance, if Sony actually follow up on what they suggested in their demo, that they could be trying to use these controls for real games as well as the casual stuff, which would be a smart move. I think they would benefit from catering to the customer base they already have, by attempting to implement it in hardcore-ish ways, as they did mention things like RPGs.

If I understood Frawlz's argument that casual gamers don't want complicated button systems or console set-ups, would like to draw attention to the ridiculous button layout of the Wiimote and Nunchuck, I mean you can't even reach all the buttons on the Wiimote holding it with 1 hand. As for set up, Sony's system would involve 2 'wands' and a camera, which isn't in theory any more complicated than the 2 parts of the Wii controller and it's sensor bar, never mind Wii motion plus.

Right well that'll do for 1 post, I'll get back to you on the Uncharted 2 Beta and ModNation Racers. *Phew*

I've been playing the Uncharted 2 Beta (with just about every other PS3 owner, closed beta my ass) and have semi surprisingly been really enjoying it. I was pesimistically expecting it to suck but while it won't have the longevity of something like Modern Warfare, I've been really enjoying it.

I especially enjoy the climbing aspect as it adds something different and can if utilised well provide tactical advantages, I don't think the climbing is too slow, you've just got to be aware that if you try to climb in the middle of the action you will get cut down. You've just got to be smart and take advantage when there are no enemies around, and I must say I don't often get killed while climbing. As for the gas tanks, Frawlz is finally right about something, they screw you up far too much considering how hard they are to utilise against enemies and how likely you are to come across an enemy while moving the tank who'll cut you down before you can throw it.

I've never played Gears of War (or any other game on the Xbox for that matter) but it certainly looks like it has a different feel, in speed and graphical style to Uncharted 2. Anyway considering how essential a purchase the 1st game was this is just an added feature it's VERY good value.

ModNation Racers is very interesting to me, it could be brilliant or if they don't give enough customisation options it could get boring, fast. What they've shown is great, but comparing it to the definitive kart racer, Mario Kart (of which I have only played the N64 version), it's basic gameplay could be lacking.

There is only so much variety that can be created from turns and slopes. In Mario Kart the different tracks had different set piece features, eg. the 1st beach track in the N64 game had a causeway with wandering crabs and the 2nd had train tracks to cross with intermittent trains. The only way MNR could do this would just be to give us a number of special features to stick onto out creations.

Mario kart tracks also each had very different settings which allowed for context based hazards, so MNR had better give us more options than just trees, mountains, lakes and villages. Maybe I'm expecting too much from a 1st look at this game but they've still got to show me more options before I'm totally convinced.... I'd probably still get it anyway though :roll:

Don't you just hate walls of text? :tongue:

What I don't get is people complaining about MAG's way of dealing with the 256 player matches. So what if you only see maybe 10-20 people the majority of the round?

No one seems to recall that the battlefield series on the PC have 64 player matches, but 64 players aren't all in one spot. Those maps were big enough that different squads would be capturing different points. So instead of a cluster**** of all those players, it was more squad based with people all over.

And I feel like MAG is delivering just that. Obviously those who hate MAG never played or didn't like any of the Battlefield games. And to those, I say **** off :lol: You wouldn't be that good playing that kind of game anways.

What I don't get is people complaining about MAG's way of dealing with the 256 player matches. So what if you only see maybe 10-20 people the majority of the round?

No one seems to recall that the battlefield series on the PC have 64 player matches, but 64 players aren't all in one spot. Those maps were big enough that different squads would be capturing different points. So instead of a cluster**** of all those players, it was more squad based with people all over.

And I feel like MAG is delivering just that. Obviously those who hate MAG never played or didn't like any of the Battlefield games. And to those, I say **** off :lol: You wouldn't be that good playing that kind of game anways.

Well said sir, not everything has to be COD. I wouldn't say MAG's squad based system will definitely work but there's no reason it shouldn't.

I think as far as Sony v MS in motion control terms goes, the Natal will be better long term but short term Sony's is better. If Sony can get their product out and implemented sooner rather than later, there are a lot of more obvious uses but the kind of facial recognition software and other features related to Milo, has more potential for the future so Sony should really start looking into that.
Does anyone else find the validity of this statement funny? Mircosoft has made and lost their gaming fortune on releasing earlier and having a simpler, shorter life cycle than the PS3. The PS3 was built, in my opinion, for durability against the sands of time, in both effectiveness, longevity of most of the hardware and the "future-proof" capability already installed in the 15 pound box.

Now Microsoft is looking to use Natal to further outlast this generation with a developing technology, while Sony is reinventing/redefining 1:1 motion control the Wii has yet to achieve, because of the amount of money Sony has lost with not selling as much of a console that they lose $200 on every purchase. (Though I hope that figure is improving) The roles have not "reversed" but the strategies of the companies have morphed. Sony wants to capitalize on motion control to cut their losses, and MS wants to build Natal so it can be applied to the console thay have now, and in future generations.

You can headshot people in Uncharted 2 .. its just pretty hard :p

Oh and tbh, i think Uncharted 2 multiplayer is miles better than Gears of war's :p

u guys r awesome keep it up

Thought the episode rocked, with good debate & Frawlz never ending fascination with Gears ...

Anyway, one tiny comment,the A-Team music for the first 10 mins...
I love the A-Team music as much as the next man... I mean Hannibal, Face, Murdoch and BA (who is who by the way - guess Frawlz can by BA?) - getting distracted - Anyway I love the A-Team as much as the next man - but for me it's either too good to have in the background or a little loud - I can't remember anything from the first 10 mins and I've found a cabbage firing gun in my back yard that I can use to fend off that no good corrupt Sheriff from stealing my pappies farm etc etc

http://sarcasticgamer.com/forums/image.php?u=7317&dateline=1244638825 http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m95/rothbart_photos/sarcasticgamer/eyepet.jpg

Coincidence? :lol:

Well I must say as far as I'm concerned, the more A Team, the better :thumbsup:

=] I luv The Blue Show!