January 9th, 2008 · Comments (http://sarcasticgamer.com/wp/index.php/2008/01/microsoft-considering-selling-a-sony-product-wtf.html#comments)

by Yousty (http://sarcasticgamer.com/wp/index.php/author/yousty/)
Source: Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN0851332620080108)
http://sarcasticgamer.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/blue-microsoft.jpg
With the recent announcement of Warner abandoning HD-DVD, Microsoft can’t help but feel like they got punched in the gut just as hard as Toshiba, right?

Wrong.

Turns out Microsoft really wasn’t as invested in HD-DVD as everybody thought. While they may have dumped millions upon millions into supporting the now dying format, it has become quite clear that it was only because they didn’t want Sony to win a format war. Turns out that even Microsoft, who is the largest company backing the HD-DVD format, is willing to switch sides to Blu-ray if that ends up being the winning format.

This sure has been a rough week for Toshiba.

When asked whether Microsoft would support a Blu-ray DVD add-on drive in the event that HD-DVD failed, Albert Penello, group marketing manager for Xbox hardware had this to say, “It should be consumer choice; and if that’s the way they vote, that’s something we’ll have to consider.”

How crazy is that? I never, ever thought I would see the day when Microsoft openly supported a direct competitor’s product, but it sure looks like that is going to happen. Funny thing is, if they do release a Blu-ray drive and start supporting that format, they’ll probably act like they were there the whole time.

It makes me think of that shifty guy who switches to the winning team right before his team loses, “What? I’ve been on your side the whole time. Honestly. HD-DVD sux! Blu-ray rox!”

well well, i guess this really is the start of the end for poor old HD DVD's.
Although we really should of seen this coming.
i do wonder though, if HD DVD had come on top, do you think sony would have done the same thing? it does stink of a microsoft dirty tactic to me...

Too be fair, MS did say before the Add on was even launched that Blu Ray could be a possibility if it won.

I agree that it was just to slow up Blu Ray though.

I hope this puts the final nail in the coffin. I'm really impressed with the nextgen DVD players but I'm not commiting to anything until the white flag is raised. Hopefully by summer, I can buy a High Definition movie and not worry that it will be obsolete because the other company just paid half a billion to get a big studio in their camp.

Well as someone who bought the HD drive for the 360, I hope for a bright side to this mess.
That the HD DVDs will soon be in a Bargain Bin.

Well as someone who bought the HD drive for the 360, I hope for a bright side to this mess.
That the HD DVDs will soon be in a Bargain Bin.

Haha, at least you're looking on the bright side of things unlike all the other HD-DVD owners who are pissing and moaning even though they knew full well when purchasing the drive there was a chance of it becoming obsolete.

Good for you, Vin!


And hey, there's always the possibility that Microsoft will release this drive for really cheap (like $100) to keep people from buying PS3s.

What the hell is the difference between the two formats?

This is like a bloody and sweaty game of extreme heads and tails.

What the hell is the difference between the two formats?


The funny thing is there isn't a whole lot of difference between the two formats. It's just that they were developed by two different companies that wanted to fight with each other because they felt they had the superior format.

The funny thing is there isn't a whole lot of difference between the two formats. It's just that they were developed by two different companies that wanted to fight with each other because they felt they had the superior format.

Blu-Ray has more storage capacity than HD DVD though right?

Blu-Ray has more storage capacity than HD DVD though right?

Yes, but they both have plenty of storage space for an entire 1080p HD movie and all the extras, so the extra space on blu-ray isn't that important...right now. A dual layer HD-DVD disc can hold 30GB while a dual layer Blu-ray can hold 50GB. And for reference the average HD movie takes up about 20-25GB of space. The extra space on Blu-rays has enabled movie studios to be able to put a lot more audio formats on the disc though.

Blu-Ray has more storage capacity than HD DVD though right?

Yeah a dual layer blu-ray disc has 50GB whereas the HD-DVD disc only has 30GB dual layer.

I have no idea what other differences there are between them, it seems to me though that if the only major difference between the two formats is just capacity then surely Blu-Ray should be the out right winner.

When asked whether Microsoft would support a Blu-ray DVD add-on drive in the event that HD-DVD failed, Albert Penello, group marketing manager for Xbox hardware had this to say, “It should be consumer choice; and if that’s the way they vote, that’s something we’ll have to consider.”

I grabbed my reply to this info from the GamerCastNetwork.com forums because it's just so appropriate...

http://static.flickr.com/2064/2049144957_f10270d38d_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/2104/1492329250_8aa7a8fc2e_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/134/329042247_27df06582c_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/1354/1456708947_a81a0e01a8_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/2164/2112548735_47645ab095_t.jpg

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http://static.flickr.com/1156/1075244742_1d92f20b40_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/1414/1459902978_857ca1b858_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/1136/548974010_a851b3b5e6_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/2120/1963823223_d6f9fd492f_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/2133/1944874688_ccba3de3ed_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/1169/1107549004_78c26625c3_t.jpg

I grabbed my reply to this info from the GamerCastNetwork.com forums because it's just so appropriate...

http://static.flickr.com/2064/2049144957_f10270d38d_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/2104/1492329250_8aa7a8fc2e_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/134/329042247_27df06582c_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/1354/1456708947_a81a0e01a8_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/2164/2112548735_47645ab095_t.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/2376/2082983641_c5bb8044a9_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/1026/1459035071_3518a1daac_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/1075/1106399769_cd91a3a057_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/2243/1561661126_e4289a0315_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/1037/1458987895_8270fea76e_t.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/1156/1075244742_1d92f20b40_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/1414/1459902978_857ca1b858_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/1136/548974010_a851b3b5e6_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/2120/1963823223_d6f9fd492f_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/2133/1944874688_ccba3de3ed_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/1169/1107549004_78c26625c3_t.jpg


What makes you say that? Just because you hate Microsoft doesn't mean that Sony won't be willing to take a big fat royalties check from them.

What makes you say that? Just because you hate Microsoft doesn't mean that Sony won't be willing to take a big fat royalties check from them.

Because I truly believe Microsoft isn't interested in physical media distribution and was only interested in keeping the format war afloat long enough keep consumers confused until Microsoft perfects digital delivery.

Once there's a "clear winner" (not to mention one using a technology they vocally have said is inferior to what they've "sided" with), there's no real reason for them to do it. They'll be closer to perfecting digital delivery, closer to their next console (which may or may not have Blu-ray depending on the state of the mainstream technology at that time), but

I'd be willing to bet a very nice, soft, tasty cookie that you'll never see an "official" product put out for the Xbox 360 that supports Blu-ray playback. There won't be a Blu-ray Add-on.

I'd be willing to bet a very nice, soft, tasty cookie that you'll never see an "official" product put out for the Xbox 360 that supports Blu-ray playback. There won't be a Blu-ray Add-on.

You're on! IF Blu-ray is the clear format winner before summer comes, I don't think Microsoft will have any choice but to release a Blu-ray addon drive. They'll have to do something to compete with the PS3's HD movie capabilities.

I still think we're a looooong way off from digital distribution of movies. Half this country doesn't even have broadband access yet for chrissakes! And even the broadband this country has is complete sh!t compared to other countries like Japan where the average connection is 30Mb. Do you have any idea how long it would take to download a 25GB 1080p movie over most people's broadband connection in this country? Even at a pretty good speed of 1Mbps constant download, it would take 7 freakin' hours to download one movie! Not only that but people don't have the hard drive space for a ton of full movies to permanently reside on their hard drives of whatever device they're using to watch the movie.

I know that Microsoft wants to move onto digital distribution, but technology still has a ways to go before we're capable of efficiently doing it. There's still plenty of time for the HD movie format to become extremely popular.

I really hope Blu ray doesn't win. Blu ray disc are 50gbs of data yet some blu ray movies still come with 2 disc. You would think with 50gbs of space Lost Season 3 on Blu ray wouldn't still be 6 disc long. Transformers on HD DVD comes with a 1080p movie, u control and the my scenes special feature, and partitions some of the disc space for you to go online and download new special features. All that on one 30gb disc while Spiderman 3 blu ray has one disc for the movie and one disc for the special features. Why is 50gbs of space needed again?

Give me a disc format that can fit all 23 episodes of Lost in HD on one disc then you can call that the next big advance Sony.

Anyway more on topic MS is just keeping this war going till they perfect digital distribution. Everyone knows thats where the real money is at. Developers and publishers are realizing that they can make more profit on a XBLA title than a retail game, digital music sales keep chipping away at cd sales, digital downloads for pc games make more profit for publishers, and digital downloads can't break or be scratched. MS knows digital distribution is the future, disc media is the past.

I really hope Blu ray doesn't win. Blu ray disc are 50gbs of data yet some blu ray movies still come with 2 disc. You would think with 50gbs of space Lost Season 3 on Blu ray wouldn't still be 6 disc long.

There's a lot of content (http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Complete-Third-Season-Blu-ray/dp/B000TFINY6/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1199915002&sr=8-1) in that set besides the 991 minute feature content.

And frankly, judging the format for one studio's use of it is rather silly. I'm sure I could find asinine uses of virtually any media format if I really wanted to.

Quite frankly Sony has nothing to do with whether Disney opted to put it on one disc or 23.

There's a lot of content (http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Complete-Third-Season-Blu-ray/dp/B000TFINY6/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1199915002&sr=8-1) in that set besides the 991 minute feature content.

And frankly, judging the format for one studio's use of it is rather silly. I'm sure I could find asinine uses of virtually any media format if I really wanted to.

Quite frankly Sony has nothing to do with whether Disney opted to put it on one disc or 23.
I used sony as an example too so its not just one studio but in order for you to know that you would have had to actually read my post first.

I know 23 43min 1080p episodes of a show on one disc is asking too much. All I want is all the special features and the movie one disc. 50gbs of space but Spiderman 3 is a 2 disc blu ray movie :(

I thought this was a known thing. Even Peter Moore mentioned why they didn't include HD-DVD support out of the box was due to not knowing which format would come out on top. The same reason WiFi was not supported out of the box, they didn't know which standard for N would come out on top. Anyway, as far as Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, I say screw them both. I am paying for the movie, not what it comes on. I should be able to buy the rights of use, then put the movie or whatever on whatever media I wish to play it from. I don't care what the data comes on, as long as I can use it the way I want to.

I thought this was a known thing. Even Peter Moore mentioned why they didn't include HD-DVD support out of the box was due to not knowing which format would come out on top.

Umm... no. The spec wasn't final when the 360 launched, plain and simple. HD-DVD itself hadn't launched yet. HD-DVD launched in March of 2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hd-dvd#Origins_and_competition_from_Blu-ray_Disc), the 360 had already been on the market for months by then.

The same reason WiFi was not supported out of the box, they didn't know which standard for N would come out on top.

What?! 802.11n? For the 360? Back in 2005?!?! That had nothing to do with it, why would you need 802.11n for your 360? They didn't include it because they A) wanted to keep costs down and B) knew if they made it a proprietary accessory, they could slap a hell of a profit margin on that part. Plain and simple. There's NO way you can tell me that little piece of equipment costs them remotely anywhere near $100 to make. I bet their mark-up on that thing is at least 300%. At least...

The simple fact that the 360 only supports 100Mbps wired connections tells me they didn't hold off on 802.11n because they didn't know what standard would come out on top... they would've at least included gigabit wired networking if speed was an issue. This was a cost/profit thing totally. They made drastically more money on the wireless by selling it as an external add-on.

Anyway, as far as Blu-Ray or HD-DVD, I say screw them both. I am paying for the movie, not what it comes on. I should be able to buy the rights of use, then put the movie or whatever on whatever media I wish to play it from. I don't care what the data comes on, as long as I can use it the way I want to.

Wow, how exactly do you get to this fantasy land you're in? Unless you're pirating movies, you're living in fantasy land, right? The fact of the matter is there isn't a "buy the movie, the media doesn't matter" plan via any legal option right now. And even if you decide to hang out with Blackbeard and his crew, it's still not that easy. You need a high-def version for your main TV, a drastically downsampled version for your portable media player, etc.

One of the problems we face when trying to get to the place you're talking about is these IP owners don't want to give us something that could conceivably be split into two products. They don't want to give us an easy to use high-def version, a standard-def version, and a portable version of their movie for fear we'll cancel out two of their potential sales when we (are assumed to) give the other two versions to friends or something. And the only way they can protect their IP to actually allow us to format shift media is if we have equipment that can all talk to each other the same way. The problem there is that everybody is confident they have the best way so we've got a bajillion different DRM implementations out there instead of one or two agreed upon standards that are licensed across most/all products.

For someone who makes a living about writing about video games, you need to do more research. I advise getting a hold of the OXM crew. Just b/c a particular product is not out yet, does not mean they weren't being planned for. N has been in the works for years, HD-DVD was in the works for years. As far as Peter Moore's statement, this was in regards to the XBox Elite not having HD-DVD built in as a standard nor WiFi.

As far as my movie and media statement, where there is a will, there is a way. Try Media Coder (http://mediacoder.sourceforge.net/index.htm). With this you can rip any movie you want, into any format you want. And when it's in the format you want you can put it into any device you want. I can watch my movies from my hard disk streamed to my XBox, or encode it into a 3gp format and play it on my phone. In fact, the software that comes with my Motorola can already encode any format I have into the exact format for my phone. So I can enjoy my movies on the go on business trips. This is all legal in most countries, accept the USA. You bought the movie, not the media it's on. To keep it legal, all I have to do is keep my external hard drive here while I go back to the States on vacation. All this is for my personal use.

Fantasy Land? I don't think so.

For someone who makes a living about writing about video games, you need to do more research.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m95/rothbart_photos/interweb_memes/1180993442620rk0.gif

Wow... maybe you should do more research... last time I checked, I wasn't making squat writing about video games. It's called a hobby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobby)... another thing I do all the time is use logic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic). You might want to study up on the info at that link, because your posts are severely lacking it.

And if you expect me to read minds knowing you were talking about the Elite, sorry to disappoint you. I still don't see why 802.11n not being finalized meant "no wireless at all"... you're wrong about that. They could've included 802.11g and been just fine with every functionality they support. I mean it's not like they waited until 802.11n was finalized and offered that as their wireless add-on. 802.11n wasn't in the picture at all. Next you're going to tell me they were going to plate the 360s in gold, but they weren't sure if the platinum market would surge, so they just used painted sheetmetal instead.

HD-DVD and Blu-ray were (and are) still risky technologies. Microsoft opted to use HD-DVD solely for movie playback. That's a key differentiating point between the PS3 and 360. If there are no HD-DVD movies, there is no use for an HD-DVD add-on for the 360. If there
are no Blu-ray movies, guess what? PS3 games use Blu-ray discs and can leverage their larger capacity. That's an additional reason why it made sense for Sony to include it in the PS3. They're shoving a Blu-ray player in front of everybody that buys a PS3, yes... but the gaming side has advantages from it too.

Copying music (http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/248102/Recording_Industry_Targets_Man_For_Copying_Legally _Purchased_Music_from_CD_to_PC)

guess what, you can not copy anything you buy

Copying music (http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/248102/Recording_Industry_Targets_Man_For_Copying_Legally _Purchased_Music_from_CD_to_PC)

guess what, you can not copy anything you buy

And that's only in the States. Again, I leave my external hard drive here when I go back to the US.

Also, you might want to read further into the article:

Audio Home Recording Act (17 US 1008) says a citizen cannot be sued for making a digital copy of a song, as long as it's for personal use. The Act reads: "No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of copyright based on the manufacture, importation, or distribution of a digital audio recording device, a digital audio recording medium, an analog recording device, or an analog recording medium, or based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device or medium for making digital musical recordings or analog musical recordings."

Wow... maybe you should do more research... last time I checked, I wasn't making squat writing about video games. It's called a hobby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobby)... another thing I do all the time is use logic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic). You might want to study up on the info at that link, because your posts are severely lacking it.

And if you expect me to read minds knowing you were talking about the Elite, sorry to disappoint you. I still don't see why 802.11n not being finalized meant "no wireless at all"... you're wrong about that. They could've included 802.11g and been just fine with every functionality they support. I mean it's not like they waited until 802.11n was finalized and offered that as their wireless add-on. 802.11n wasn't in the picture at all. Next you're going to tell me they were going to plate the 360s in gold, but they weren't sure if the platinum market would surge, so they just used painted sheetmetal instead.

HD-DVD and Blu-ray were (and are) still risky technologies. Microsoft opted to use HD-DVD solely for movie playback. That's a key differentiating point between the PS3 and 360. If there are no HD-DVD movies, there is no use for an HD-DVD add-on for the 360. If there
are no Blu-ray movies, guess what? PS3 games use Blu-ray discs and can leverage their larger capacity. That's an additional reason why it made sense for Sony to include it in the PS3. They're shoving a Blu-ray player in front of everybody that buys a PS3, yes... but the gaming side has advantages from it too.

My bad. Sorry you aren't getting paid for your hobby. Then again, if it was your job, it wouldn't be a hobby. I stand by my statement that they weren't included out of the box due to the technology being up in the air. MSFT stood by the add on marketing plan due to the ability that if an add on became obsolete they can sell an updated add on. This was all in the review of the Elite System by OXM before it came out.

On a personal note, I think you are taking this way too much to heart. I've read most of your articles, and yes, I agree with most of them. When I disagree, I do post. That's why I decided to become a member of this community. As you can see, it's only recently I have become a member. My original post on this thread was supposed to be informative and also to give my opinion about the "format war." It's a crock of crap. We are the consumer. We are the customer. And we are always right. If we as a consumer don't like something, we don't buy it. This causes the producer to change it's tactics and products, or go the way of the Dodo.

Now as far as what media your games come on, that's all about the company and it's customer. No, I don't think an XBox360 game disk should be playable on a PS3, or vise versa. When I talk of the media format, I am talking of movies and music. I don't need my console turning into a PC and all the problems that come with it.

I stand by my statement that they weren't included out of the box due to the technology being up in the air.

So if Microsoft didn't include 802.11n (a wireless technology that goes WELL beyond 100Mbps speeds) or 802.11g (54Mbps), how do you explain that fact that their wired networking option is only 100Mbps and they haven't since released anything other than the $99 802.11a/b/g adapter? If they really were set on supporting higher transfer rates but the lack of a finalized spec kept them from it, I'd expect them to spend the extra buck on a gigabit port...

What is your "proof" that they were set on including 802.11n out of the box or nothing else? It makes no sense. 802.11g was finalized in 2003, plenty of time to be included. It's the wireless tech. they ended up using anyway, and it's got more than enough bandwidth for anything the box does. I've seen nobody but you claim Microsoft's intention was to include 802.11n and the reason there isn't "built-in" wireless is because the 802.11n spec wasn't finalized. Just you...

For the record, Wikipedia says (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/802.11n#Comparison_chart) 802.11n isn't expected to be "finalized" until June '09. Everything released so far is "Draft N" compatible.

MSFT stood by the add on marketing plan due to the ability that if an add on became obsolete they can sell an updated add on. This was all in the review of the Elite System by OXM before it came out.

Is that your only proof? That's easily dismissed as marketing spin man. "Hey guys, we need a positive spin on why there's no built-in HD-DVD or wireless, can you work up something to that effect?" You need to learn to sometimes filter out states in and by Official Xbox Magazine as quite possibly being written to reflect their situation in the best possible light. I might even halfway buy that reason if their 802.11g wireless networking kit was say $40. But it's at the BOHICA price of $99 "because they can". There's nothing $99 about a USB networking adapter, you have your choice of products under $30 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2052810031+4093&name=%2410+-+%2425) at NewEgg for the PC. What is it about the Xbox offering that makes it cost 3x as much?

On a personal note, I think you are taking this way too much to heart.

Nope, I love a good debate (especially when I'm certain I'm right). I'm not mad or angry at you, I'm trying to show you that you're wrong. ;) And not in an "I'm right, you're wrong" sort of way, but a "here is the reason/link I said what I said and here is the reason/link why I think you're wrong".

When I talk of the media format, I am talking of movies and music. I don't need my console turning into a PC and all the problems that come with it.

As was I. I too would LOVE to be able to "format shift" my movies from HD, to SD, to portable as needed. It's just never gonna happen without massive caveats. The closest we're going to come is when things like the Blu-ray->PSP stuff Sony announced happens, but that's still not even close because it's not truly open, it's one Sony product endorsing the option (not requirement) to have a PSP-compatible version included on the disc. I totally get their concerns over not wanting to lose "control" over versions of their IP (ie. they need to wrap everything in DRM), but these companies need to realize there are benefits to having a DRM scheme in common... a standard DRM.

I just can't believe this keeps happening. Has anyone even watched Microsoft development and business models over the past years. It has shown clearly a couple of things:
1. They will always not include something in their software/hardware so that they can charge for it later at an insane price.
See: XP 64 Vista 2001 server package and their server software prices are insane when compared to Linux based and don't even perform the same functions. Also the fact that dx 10 only was able to work with vista even though vista basic 32 bit has the same capabilities as xp pro 32bit
2. They will buy up/support certain formats just to screw over competition
See: Apple vs. Windows war Image Software

Now apply this to the Xbox 360 layout
Original release no wifi hdmi support or any hd/bluray format support
okay bs reasons why blahblahblah couldn't be released
New models released including elite
until the very new chip set no hdmi support except elite and still no wifi support and hd-dvd/bluray support
Hello 180 bucks for 120 gigs unless its the size of flash drive their is no reason to paying more then 1$/1gig
I own a xbox 360 and i know Microsoft are money grubbing whores cause guess what we idiots pay for it. So can everyone just wake up and stop defending the pristine reputation that somehow they believe Microsoft has and realize they are out their to make money so their decision are guided by that. So they will continue to follow the tactics that brought them to the lvl of semi-monopoly they are at today

I think that it's pretty smart for Microsoft to be unbiased in the format war. No other console supports HD-DVD, and they would have an edge if that won. It's just a smart business move to be willing to switch to Blu-ray if that ends up winning. I mean, would you want your console stuck with some really crap technology? That'd be like an NES being able to play 8-track.

I agree totally that the add-ons are totally a rip off. I still say making your own wired network in the house is the only safe, efficient, and secure way to go. I am dang sure you are right that gauging the customer with over priced accessories just b/c they say Microsoft Certified on them is also a crock of crap. But, the reasoning behind not having it out of the box is sound. With N not finalized, they can turn around and sell you an N standard wireless adapter for even more money without the customer feeling too ripped off due to already having A,B, and G standards already built into the box. Thanks for the link to the cheap adapters by the way. New Egg was my best friend in Iraq. (At the time they shipped there. I am not sure if they still do.)

I am glad this just a debate by the way. I was getting worried. I am a moderator on another forum that has to do with something way different from games. I have seen people who finally meet from the forum go to blows over stupid crap that was said on such forum. Needless to say I quit moding that forum. Not nice to see grown middle age men act like teenagers.

Again JDorfler, 802.11n isn't sestimated to be finalized until 2009, the original 360 came out in late '05 and the Elite in mid '07.

Why (I'm asking you this very specific blatant question), why are you stuck on the idea Microsoft wanted to include 802.11n wireless in ANY model and instead chose not to include wireless at all because 802.11n wasn't finalized yet?

It's like me saying I'm going to drive to the store, but the 2010 Mustangs aren't out yet.

Yeah, I could wait until then... but there's nothing about a 2010 Mustang that's going to improve my experience of driving down to the corner any more than cars available cheaply today offer.

There's nothing about 802.11n that the 360 needs. There's no functionality that says "Oh, if I only had faster than the 54Mbps speed of 802.11g, this would be possible".

They never wanted to include wireless out of the box. The question was asked to Moore, "Why wasn't WiFi built into the Elite, or for that matter, the original 360s?" His answer was that the New N standard should be out soon and it was easier to keep it as an add on. (Kinda stupid due to the fact the Elite came out with HDMI that you couldn't get on the older consoles.) This was right before, "If everything is now black on the Elite, will the other accessories also be sold in black."

The external HD-DVD was MSFT's way of supporting the format, without diving head first into the mix. If HD-DVD fell short, well, they just bring out the Blu-Ray add-on.

Why wasn't gigabit wired included? And again, what is your source? I don't doubt for a moment that you believe what you're saying... that makes one of us...

OXM as stated before. As far as deep down reasons why they went about doing as they did? And no spin, and no he said she said, I don't know. In the long run, I am just a very small share holder. I don't even think my Proxy votes get counted that much.

I had this debate via chat yesterday with Roth and I have to side with Yousty. I think that it is very clear that Microsoft never truly committed to the HD-DVD format; adding the external drive was simply a way for them to support the format without dedicating itself to it. I don't think that their decision was to necessarily battle Blu-Ray as some feel, but rather to battle the PS3. I don't really think that MS really cares which format wins, they just viewed it as an opportunity to oppose the PS3 because they committed to one format. At this point, since the Blu-Ray format seems to have won, it would only make sense for MS to bring the BR-external drive to the 360. With the format war being (almost) decided, that is the only way for them to continue their assault on Sony from that front... it really seems like a natural decision to me...

Looking at this whole fiasco, I think MS did a smart thing, they supported a format that had a chance at winning, But even if it didn't those people who bought the HD-DVD player, were more likely to now buy the new Blu-Ray player when they released it. So more money for M$. Truth be told I don't know to what degree they did support HD so they may be loosing money on this.

Looking at this whole fiasco, I think MS did a smart thing, they supported a format that had a chance at winning, But even if it didn't those people who bought the HD-DVD player, were more likely to now buy the new Blu-Ray player when they released it.

Huh?! People who buy products that become obsolete are more likely to buy your "second attempt" products? I certainly didn't study that marketing technique in college... :D

I too would LOVE to be able to "format shift" my movies from HD, to SD, to portable as needed.
HD DVD allows this. HD movie on one side, DVD(SD) movie on the other side, and portable with any laptop/portable dvd player. All on one $30 disc :)


Im not sure if this was posted yet but MS backing blu ray was false.

"Microsoft today stressed that it believes HD DVD is the best optical disc for consumers and that it has no plans to support Blu-ray Disc on the Xbox 360, despite recent comments from company staffers that it might.

The company reaffirmed its love for HD DVD following a news story in which Microsoft suggested it might back Blu-ray if that's what its customers wanted.

After Reuters asked Microsoft’s group marketing manager for Xbox hardware, Albert Penello, if Microsoft would support a Blu-ray Disc drive accessory in the event that HD DVD failed, he said: "It should be consumer choice, and if that's the way they vote, that's something we'll have to consider."

However, Microsoft today said that HD DVD remains the only format to deliver quality experiences at affordable prices.

It won't need to support Blu-ray, because HD DVD isn't going to fail, is it?

Glad we got that one cleared up."

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/01/10/microsoft_denies_hddvd_reuters_quote/

HD DVD dead? I think not.

HD DVD allows this. HD movie on one side, DVD(SD) movie on the other side, and portable with any laptop/portable dvd player. All on one $30 disc :)

I'll pretend that was a bad joke instead of retarded statement... :D

And Microsoft won't admit defeat until... well... yeah, they'll never admit defeat. If HD-DVD does die, it won't be defeat, it'll be "cue the digital download marketing push and PR spin!"

Well, since Bill Gates is gone, we might see some new stuff with the 360 and the format war. I don't know how much he was involved in that department, but...

Well, since Bill Gates is gone, we might see some new stuff with the 360 and the format war. I don't know how much he was involved in that department, but...

Heh heh... I'm sure it was all up to Bill Gates. *snickers* :rolleyes:

Huh?! People who buy products that become obsolete are more likely to buy your "second attempt" products? I certainly didn't study that marketing technique in college... :D

Don't get me wrong, but seriously how many people used the DVD option on the original xbox. Next to none (understatement). Now the people who have xbox 360's have the same option. The people who bought the HD player are probably going to buy the Blu player just because they want something to play their movies. And they did it because it was the cheapest available, while offering the same quality shit.

When looking around the cheapest player out there was the xbox HD. Not a stand alone player. So I'm thinking that people are going to do the same with Blu-Ray, seeing that the xbox version is cheaper, they will go and rebuy their add on player since it is cheaper for them to do that then actually buy a Blu-Ray DVD player from sony.

Well, I guess it's you're right to think that...

If Microsoft releases a Blu-ray add-on for the 360, Doc and Lono can publicly humiliate me on the podcast. I say this because it's never gonna happen (the Blu-ray part, I have no doubt Doc and Lono will humiliate me on the show... poor Alex, at least when they're getting me, he should be getting a break. And let's not forget Dave...)

How many people like not being able to watch a movie because their 360 is in for repair? I'm confident we won't see another video playback accessory at all unless it's simply a different colored version of the same drive.

How much do you think a Blu-ray add-on would cost? You can probably see where I'm going with this, but let's just assume it costs what the HD-DVD add-on costs (but by most accounts, people consider Blu-ray more expensive when it comes to hardware). $170. Take a 360 Pro for $350, add on $170, you get $520. You really think they'll let that go up against a $399 PS3 that can do the same thing? I mean they have the choice not to... and that's the choice they'll make. Just like HD-DVD, for the 360, Blu-ray only represents a movie playback technology. You can say "it might" forever, but it won't come out. ;)

Amen, Rothbart. You're probably right.

The one advantage that HD-DVD has over Blu Ray is the ability to connect to the internet. Having said this I have never got any of this extra content to work successfully. I got the HD-DVD drive which is why its definitely going to fail. I had betamax, minidisc and dreamcast. If I back a format it probably means doom.
We got extra shafted in the UK with even less HD-DVD releases, there are no HD-DVD/DVD combo disc releases. No release of movies like The Departed.
The last fall update for the 360 also made it technically possible for the first time to view pirated HD movies using the 360. Possibly more proof that their are happy to undermine the current HD formats?

I'll pretend that was a bad joke instead of retarded statement... :D

:confused:

The one advantage that HD-DVD has over Blu Ray is the ability to connect to the internet.

Ever hear of Blu-ray Profile 2.0 (or "BD-Live")? It was shown functioning at CES. It will add this exact same functionality (and more) to Blu-ray. The roadmap was in place when Blu-ray launched, this isn't a knee-jerk reaction on Blu-ray's part to copy HD-DVD's features.

Having said that, the "remote synchronized viewing" crap that HD-DVD has now and Blu-ray will allow in the future has to be one of the most "fluff" features I could possibly think of having. I would NEVER use this... and can't imagine anybody else realistically using it except maybe to see if it works.

I grabbed my reply to this info from the GamerCastNetwork.com forums because it's just so appropriate...

http://static.flickr.com/2064/2049144957_f10270d38d_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/2104/1492329250_8aa7a8fc2e_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/134/329042247_27df06582c_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/1354/1456708947_a81a0e01a8_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/2164/2112548735_47645ab095_t.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/2376/2082983641_c5bb8044a9_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/1026/1459035071_3518a1daac_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/1075/1106399769_cd91a3a057_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/2243/1561661126_e4289a0315_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/1037/1458987895_8270fea76e_t.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/1156/1075244742_1d92f20b40_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/1414/1459902978_857ca1b858_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/1136/548974010_a851b3b5e6_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/2120/1963823223_d6f9fd492f_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/2133/1944874688_ccba3de3ed_t.jpghttp://static.flickr.com/1169/1107549004_78c26625c3_t.jpg

Because I truly believe Microsoft isn't interested in physical media distribution and was only interested in keeping the format war afloat long enough keep consumers confused until Microsoft perfects digital delivery.

Once there's a "clear winner" (not to mention one using a technology they vocally have said is inferior to what they've "sided" with), there's no real reason for them to do it. They'll be closer to perfecting digital delivery, closer to their next console (which may or may not have Blu-ray depending on the state of the mainstream technology at that time), but

I'd be willing to bet a very nice, soft, tasty cookie that you'll never see an "official" product put out for the Xbox 360 that supports Blu-ray playback. There won't be a Blu-ray Add-on.

You're on! IF Blu-ray is the clear format winner before summer comes, I don't think Microsoft will have any choice but to release a Blu-ray addon drive. They'll have to do something to compete with the PS3's HD movie capabilities.

I still think we're a looooong way off from digital distribution of movies. Half this country doesn't even have broadband access yet for chrissakes! And even the broadband this country has is complete sh!t compared to other countries like Japan where the average connection is 30Mb. Do you have any idea how long it would take to download a 25GB 1080p movie over most people's broadband connection in this country? Even at a pretty good speed of 1Mbps constant download, it would take 7 freakin' hours to download one movie! Not only that but people don't have the hard drive space for a ton of full movies to permanently reside on their hard drives of whatever device they're using to watch the movie.

I know that Microsoft wants to move onto digital distribution, but technology still has a ways to go before we're capable of efficiently doing it. There's still plenty of time for the HD movie format to become extremely popular.

Ruh-Roh, Rothbart. Looks like somebody might be eating their words:
Sony "in talks" with Microsoft about an Xbox 360 Blu-ray drive (http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/06/sony-in-talks-with-microsoft-about-a-xbox-360-blu-ray-d/)

Personally, I don't care because I already took the plunge and bought a PS3 for the blu-ray player, but I sure could go for a "nice, soft, tasty cookie" followed by a big glass of I told you so.:p

Why on EARTH would Sony do this??? Are they HIGH?

They've started the momentum for the demand of their console, and if they do this for real, the impetus to buy a PS3 for Blu-ray lovers would be Gone! People who've got 360s would be like f'yeah, i don't need no PS3 for me movies!!!

It is true then, that ever since KK and PH left that even Sony has forsaken their only begotten son to their newest format....

Ruh-Roh, Rothbart. Looks like somebody might be eating their words:
Sony "in talks" with Microsoft about an Xbox 360 Blu-ray drive (http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/06/sony-in-talks-with-microsoft-about-a-xbox-360-blu-ray-d/)

Personally, I don't care because I already took the plunge and bought a PS3 for the blu-ray player, but I sure could go for a "nice, soft, tasty cookie" followed by a big glass of I told you so.:p

Sony was in talks with Nintendo to develop the Playstation as a Nintendo product too... that worked out for 'em. :D

egg=egg-1 /* don't count chickens yet

If Sony did give Ms license to use a blu-ray drive, wouldnt Sony get royalites from every BD game sold and Blu ray game sold? So if 360 does well Sony does well kind of thing. Also, if MS does implement Blu-ray, it would kind of be bad PR. "MS taking handouts from Sony" kind of thing.

Sony's not even in control of the licensing, it's the BDA that decides who can and cannot license the technology. The whole story sounds kinda fishy to me...

Sony's not even in control of the licensing, it's the BDA that decides who can and cannot license the technology. The whole story sounds kinda fishy to me...

And.... that didn't take long.

Source (next-gen.biz) (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9445&Itemid=2)

Microsoft Downplays Blu 360 Talk

By Kris Graft (contact_us@next-gen.biz)

A Sony exec has reportedly said the electronics giant is in discussions with Microsoft about Blu-ray for Xbox 360, but a Microsoft rep tells Next-Gen that there are "no plans" to bring the technology to its console.
With Microsoft-supported HD-DVD now in format heaven, speculation that Blu-ray will head to Xbox 360 is now as open as ever.

The Financial Times (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ca6017de-eba6-11dc-9493-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1) in a Thursday article cited Sony Electronics US president Stan Glasgow, who reportedly said during a media dinner that Microsoft and Sony are discussing Blu-ray for Xbox 360.

But a Microsoft rep said in a phone interview with Next-Gen that that is "not at all" the case, and Microsoft will "remain focused on the games" for the console, not its movie playback capabilities.

"There are no plans to introduce Blu-ray," said the spokesperson.

"In response to Stan Glasgow’s statement that Blu-ray is a possibility for Xbox 360, we have made no such announcement," the rep added in an e-mail. "Games are what are driving consumers to purchase game consoles and we remain focused on providing the largest library of blockbuster games available."

lol you quoted yourself and not only that the quoted post was the last post. You sir are ballsy.

lol you quoted yourself and not only that the quoted post was the last post. You sir are ballsy.

There's a method to my madness. If people are subscribed to the thread, read that first post and didn't reply, had I just edited my post then they wouldn't have seen the new info I posted. Therefore I posted a new post. The quote seemed logical enough though... after submitting the first post, I realized that Sony has no direct control over who does and doesn't license Blu-ray. That should've been a big flashing sign that this story wasn't quite right and apparently the Microsoft PR guys were in super-duper-turbo speed to squash this rumor because they don't want people getting excited for an accessory they have no intention of going any further than "consideration" with.

Didn't microsoft also have no plans for including an HDMI port at some point?

Didn't microsoft also have no plans for including an HDMI port at some point?

Microsoft's one of those companies that has "plans" for everything... but yes, they've waffled on 1080p and HDMI.

Alright, even if Sony has no control over the licensing of the technology, are they not one of the largest supporters and developers of the technology in conjunction with a few other companies in the association? So they would still make a buck off MS adopting the technology.

If they dont adopt, Sony retains exclusivity
If they do adopt, Sony makes money off thier sales (even if it is small).

For Sony its a win, win it would seem.